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Thread: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

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    Default Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    Dennilson got me outraged by his last post with his assertion that Oleksandr Usyk is not a great because he has not outclassed the top heavyweights yet.

    Many people think that modern super heavyweights would beat the champions from the past. Usyk at 220lb has shown that is nonsense when he beats fighters that are 3 or 4 stone heavier than him. Literally pound for pound accomplishment in action.

    If it was a simple task of jumping all over Oleksandr and using their weight then Fury and AJ would have done it but Usyk boxing skills mean they can not do it. Usyk footwork and work rate are exceptional.

    Oleksandr Usyk showed his class by upsetting AJ to win the title and nearly stopping him in the last round, in the rematch he closed the show by winning the last 3 rounds. He battered Fury in round 9 like no one has before and won the rematch with more ease than the first fight.

    Usyk outclassed Dubois and stopped him with ease. The angles and pace were phenomenal and triple D did not know what was happening to him. The punches were raining in from all sides. No body has done that to Dubois.

    This is all from a former undisputed cruiserweight champion.

    So how would Oleksandr Usyk do against the heavyweight greats of the past whith particular interest facing Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lennox and Wlad?
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    Here's my predictions prime for prime

    Liston - Usyk by UD
    Ali - Ali by UD or late stoppage
    Frazier- Frazier by KO
    Foreman - Foreman by KO
    Holmes - SD Holmes
    Tyson - tough call here Usyk by decision if he survives first 4 rounds
    Holyfield - Draw
    Bowe - Usyk by UD much same as Fury win
    Lennox - Lennox KO around 8
    Wlad - Wlad on points in a snoozefest
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    Liston - Usyk by late round stoppage, between 8 and 10
    Ali - Ali by UD or late stoppage
    Frazier- Usyk by UD
    Foreman - Foreman by KO
    Holmes - SD for Usyk
    Tyson - pre-1992 Tyson mauls Usyk in 4 rounds, post 1992 before the second Holyfield fight, Mike gets himself DQ'd
    Holyfield - Wide UD for Usyk
    Bowe - Usyk by SD
    Lennox - Lennox by KO in 8
    Wlad - Wlad on points in a snoozefest...
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    Good thread this one, nice one @Master. I think “enraged” at @Denilson’s post is a bit over the top.
    I don’t agree with everything he said, but he put a decent case (as he always does tbf. Until he gets carried away by race)
    I’m counting this as Usyk’s prime, and I’m counting each of his opponents in their prime.
    Liston - Usyk on points.
    Ali - Ali on points.
    Frazier- great fight , Usyk SD.
    Foreman - Usyk Points
    Holmes - Holmes Points
    Tyson - Tyson KO between 6 & 10. (Any later than that and Usyk wins by late KO or points)
    Holyfield - Holyfield SD
    Bowe - Usyk SD
    Lennox - Lewis UD
    Wlad - Wlad on points
    The way I see it Usyk deals with the big guys pretty well, hence beating Foreman and Bowe. Too much ring IQ for Liston. Ali is the same size , but Ali beats him in just about every department, although he probably doesn’t KO Usyk.
    Infact the Critique @Denilson made about Usyk could almost be thrown at Ali if you think about it. Yes he KO’d Foreman, but Foreman was dead on his feet. And there’s always been a bit of controversy about the Liston KO.
    I think he edges Frazier, Holmes keeps him off with his jab.
    Holyfield would be all over Usyk like a rash, similar to Frazier but a little bit more skill in my book.
    And I think styles make fights and prime Lennox and Wlad would be too awkward for Usyk. They would Jab, hold and lean all over Usyk for 12 rounds solid.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    OK. I'll just go through a few past greats at heavyweight

    Start off with Ali

    Honestly ? Look. Any comparison between Usyk and Ali is simply not warranted.

    Muhammed Ali best wins are prime George Foreman and Joe Frazier, that is top 10 heavyweights of all time. He also beat a very close to prime Sonny Liston, a top 10 heavyweight. There was a 14 year period between Ali winning the Lineal heavyweight title and the last time he held it

    Usyk hasn't even had a 14 year career. He's only had 22 fights. For Usyk to try to compete, he’d have to beat Parker, Zhang, Bakole, Kabayel, Ituama, etc. Hell, Opetaia too probably Bivol and Beterbiev also. Ali fought literally everyone..

    It would take a much more special fighter than Usyk to eclipse Ali at heavyweight. Usyk is good, but Ali does everything better than him and is simply far more talented. You know how Roy Jones was able to make elite technicians like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins look like mugs? That's that would happen to Usyk once Ali shows he's Usyk's equal in technical ability but has better stamina, faster hands, better foot speed and more power.

    And I'm talking about young Ali (Cassisus Clay) not the Ali who fought Foreman or even Frazier, the Ali before the Vietnam sanction

    I'm talking this Ali, the 1967 Cleveland Williams - Ali



    And as a young man, Ali could fight like that, at pretty much that pace for 15 rounds.

    Now, if sum1 was to say Usyk would beat the 2nd coming of Ali ? Post Vietnam ? The slower, less dancing Ali ? That's a fair argument, I still don't think Usyk would, but I'm not as certain. I'm only 70% certain that the older Ali would beat Usyk, Whereas I'm 99% certain the young Ali beats Usyk.

    A young Ali was pretty much untouchable before the forced exile from boxing. Mate - I'll take it to the next level. Usyk would not even land a punch on the young Ali (Cassius Clay). Maybe if Usyk went 15 years unbeaten at World title level, we could have a discussion about it.

    But it's ironic that both Uysk and Ali share a birthday and are both are six foot three inches in height, have a seventy-eight reach and their optimum fighting weight is between 215 and 220 pounds,
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 12-31-2024 at 05:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk vs the Greats at Heavyweight

    Prime Mike Tyson

    This should not even be a debate.

    Prime Tyson would have been a stylistic nightmare for Usyk

    Prime Tyson had

    1. Foot speed
    2. Hand speed
    3. Stamina
    4. Chin
    5. Knockout power in both hands

    Those 5 things are an impossible list of qualities for Usyk to overcome.

    To beat Mike Tyson, you had to pretty much had to kill him. You had to beat the shit outta of him, round after round. To beat Tyson. You have to be brave and stand and trade with him centre ring and not take a step back and test his heart and desire. Usyk doesn't fight like that.

    But if Usyk did stand toe to toe with Prime Tyson ? He's dead. He would not have the power to hurt Tyson, nor would he have the power that Tyson would respect.

    If Usyk got on his bike ? Even worse, Tyson's foot speed would catch him and kill him

    Just show people this is prime Mike



    And prime Tyson was (And a lotta people don't realise this and he doesn't get enough credit for this) a gym rat. Young Mike was a spartan, one of the most professional, hardest working heavyweight champs



    We are talking prime Tyson, he could run a 5-minute mile, row 2000m in under 7 mins, he trained like a Triathlete.

    You know what that means ? That means if Usyk was to get past 4 rounds tyson wouldn't gas like these modern day silverbacks do.

    And that's the thing with Usyk, when he loses, it won't be a tactical chess match points loss, I think he'll loss very badly

    Usyk is a modern day great, but an ATG ? I'm not sure
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 01-01-2025 at 01:14 PM.

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