Addressing the PED problem

[Beanflicker]

If anyone believes there is not enough money in boxing to do PED testing fairly, without an undo burden on anybody they don't know boxing.

This has nothing to do with boxing anymore, it's a question of science and economics.

Which is why we're running into this debate: these guys know boxing, but they don't understand the science or the economics involved in their ramblings.

For fuck's sake.

[beenKOed]

I'm not giving you a diagram of how to solve the PED problem, only stating that yes it takes money. And there's money in boxing to put into the solution. That's all. Doing something is better than bitching and moaning like you obviously like to do.

I'm not bitching and moaning. I'm telling you the legitimate, real world problems that this proposed system is going to run into. "I DONT CARE LETS JUST THROW MONEY AT THE PROBLEM AND HOPE IT GOES AWAY" is never the right solution. You have to think critically and come up with the most efficient way to do it, not just say "OH SOME MAGICAL GOVERNING BODY THAT DOESN'T EXIST SHOULD JUST TAKE THE MONEY FROM THE BIG PROMOTERS AND MAKE THIS PROBLEM GO AWAY". It's just rediculous.

No one's arguing that there's not enough money in boxing to do it. There's enough money in the bank accounts of rich people to end poverty. The problem is, you don't get to just force the wealthy to hand over their money because you think they should. The world doesn't work like that. What about this concept do you not understand?? As far as I know you haven't refuted anything I've said, you've just accused me of bitching and being a Negative Nancy.

I've never seen so much concentrated idiocy in one thread before. I keep expecting you to just admit you're trolling me.

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

[Beanflicker]

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

If you don't agree with what I say, which means you think I am wrong, you should be able to tell me why I'm wrong. Nobody has even TRIED to do that. It's just a bunch of intellectual midgets who can't have a debate.

I'm not pissed, and I didn't start insulting him personally until he insulted me.

You picked a good name, because you debate like a guy who has suffered through a brain injury or two.

[beenKOed]

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

If you don't agree with what I say, which means you think I am wrong, you should be able to tell me why I'm wrong. Nobody has even TRIED to do that. It's just a bunch of intellectual midgets who can't have a debate.

I'm not pissed, and I didn't start insulting him personally until he insulted me.

You picked a good name, because you debate like a guy who has suffered through a brain injury or two.

I really don't have time to get into a cat fight with you, something you seem to thrive on, so I'll end with this.
If you apologize we'll probably accept it, after all, when everything is said and done civility is the trademark of an adult.
You do want us to think of you as an adult, right?

[Violent Demise]

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

If you don't agree with what I say, which means you think I am wrong, you should be able to tell me why I'm wrong. Nobody has even TRIED to do that. It's just a bunch of intellectual midgets who can't have a debate.

I'm not pissed, and I didn't start insulting him personally until he insulted me.

You picked a good name, because you debate like a guy who has suffered through a brain injury or two.

I really don't have time to get into a cat fight with you, something you seem to thrive on, so I'll end with this.
If you apologize we'll probably accept it, after all, when everything is said and done civility is the trademark of an adult.
You do want us to think of you as an adult, right?

He's the one making sense. No need for him to apologize. And I'm sure TF has been called an idiot plenty of times before

[TitoFan]

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

If you don't agree with what I say, which means you think I am wrong, you should be able to tell me why I'm wrong. Nobody has even TRIED to do that. It's just a bunch of intellectual midgets who can't have a debate.

I'm not pissed, and I didn't start insulting him personally until he insulted me.

You picked a good name, because you debate like a guy who has suffered through a brain injury or two.

You're the one who brought Trinidad into the conversation, totally off topic.
But more to the point...........

Are you still talking?


Why?

[TitoFan]

It's a shame everyone doesn't agree with everything you say, but we're not your wife or children and really don't give a shit if you get pissed.

We--all of us--are allowed to have an oppinion, even if it differs from yours, without being called an idiot.

It's hard sometimes, but civility is the trademark of an adult. I have spoken. lol

If you don't agree with what I say, which means you think I am wrong, you should be able to tell me why I'm wrong. Nobody has even TRIED to do that. It's just a bunch of intellectual midgets who can't have a debate.

I'm not pissed, and I didn't start insulting him personally until he insulted me.

You picked a good name, because you debate like a guy who has suffered through a brain injury or two.

I really don't have time to get into a cat fight with you, something you seem to thrive on, so I'll end with this.
If you apologize we'll probably accept it, after all, when everything is said and done civility is the trademark of an adult.
You do want us to think of you as an adult, right?

He's the one making sense. No need for him to apologize. And I'm sure TF has been called an idiot plenty of times before

Not by anyone that matters, moron.

[TitoFan]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

The USADA performed over 8200 doping tests in 2011 with expenses totaling $15.2 million. And this included everything from: testing services, results management, science and R&D, education and awareness, and general/ administrative costs. Six thousand tests can obviously be done for a lot less money. You get comprehensive testing performed on professional boxers for less than one percent of the gross revenue.

It's already being done.

In addition, team sport leagues such as the NFL and others have firmly implanted doping testing and have successfully managed issues such as testing costs. They've decided the risks are too high to do nothing and risk serious injury and loss of sport popularity.

[beenKOed]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

The USADA performed over 8200 doping tests in 2011 with expenses totaling $15.2 million. And this included everything from: testing services, results management, science and R&D, education and awareness, and general/ administrative costs. Six thousand tests can obviously be done for a lot less money. You get comprehensive testing performed on professional boxers for less than one percent of the gross revenue.

It's already being done.

In addition, team sport leagues such as the NFL and others have firmly implanted doping testing and have successfully managed issues such as testing costs. They've decided the risks are too high to do nothing and risk serious injury and loss of sport popularity.

It can be done, boxing needs to choose a person or organization everyone can trust and do it.