French military targets Islamist rebels in Mali

[Kirkland Laing]

This is one of half a dozen countries that are getting Islamist nutjob/Al Quaeda-like groups setting up shop in it. But really it's just a continuation of rebel groups taking over from tinpot dictatorships in African countries, it's been going on since the colonial era. A couple of decades ago these guys were all Communist or similar, now they're Islamist. Islamism is just the rallying call du jour.

Chairman of the Fed/Wall Street chief spokesman Alan Greenspan :

"I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."

I always wonder where the al Qaeda militants get most of their funding, it would be interesting to know. I know in Afganistan much of their funding came from the sale of opium.

In re: 'The war with Iraq being largely about oil', yeah that and protecting Israel from imaginary nukes.

The guys in Mali get their money from drug/people smuggling and kidnapping. And they've got a lot of money.

Al Quaeda's biggest funder is various members of the Saudi royal family but there are so many wealthy people in Saudi and the Gulf states who donate money to Islamist terrorist groups that there's no problem for any bunch of guys who want to cause the west trouble gettting funding.

[Kirkland Laing]

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

[Andre]

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

Excusez mon impolitesse M.

[Kirkland Laing]

First I heard about this was a local newscast tonight. Sounds like it was centered around a failed hostage rescue but they are pretty tight lipped so far. Figures with the number of citizens they have in the immediate region they feel the urge to actually do something but I'd be hesitant to stand to close with them mainly because you have to think they'll secure their own interest and hop on the next plane out, rebels taking dirt naps or not.

When was the last time the French won a war, when Napoleon was there? There's several thousand French citizens living in Southern Mali, other then that I can't see why France would give a fuck about being in that desert shithole.

The French citizens are running French companies out there. It's the French companies insisting the French government does something about their investments that made the French bomb the rebels. Otherwise they'd just evacuate their people like western countries do in conflict countries where we don't have investments.

Excusez mon impolitesse M.

Aucun problème.

[Andre]

Merci

[Andre]

Tish, you spoke french!

[VictorCharlie]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

[Andre]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave.

Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

I imagine the first four words all go with the job description naturally.

The next sentence for the most part I imagine goes with the territory, in each countries services where ever they are and for each countries leaders who ever they are.

[VictorCharlie]

To a certain extent I agree Andre. I joined the military during a time of conflict with the full understanding that I would be going into harms way. Because of this I don't really feel I have the right to complain about it. Soldiers join for lots of reasons but they fight for each other. No one dodges bullets for the idea of patriotism or bringing freedom to some far off land. You do it b/c it is your sworn duty and to make sure that guy or gal to your left and right goes home. I expect my government to equip and train me to fight and then to let me execute my duties the best I can. For the most part this has been the case. While I haven't always agreed with the strategic or national goals of the conflicts I've take part in, I've always been given the resources I needed to accomplish my mission and bring my boys home. The French were sending their boys to Afghanistan then putting so many constraints on them they were not able to own their battlespace. They kept getting punched in the nose b/c they weren't allowed to do their job as it should be done.

[Kirkland Laing]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

I think the British were in the same boat. I think it's just the general staff trying to figure out how to do counterinsurgency best. I don't think it makes much difference if you decide to be as nice as possible or you just shoot fuck out of everything at every opportunity, counterinsurgency doesn't work.

[VictorCharlie]

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

[TysonBomb]

I'm sure citizens of Mali would appreciate armed French invaders targeting "Islamist rebels" within their nations boundaries.

[Gandalf]

Mars AX is an idiot. He suddenly thinks we are worried about the French. What a wanker.

God, you're good.

[Kirkland Laing]

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

It doesn't really matter in the short term though. It's only worth doing if it works in the long term and I can't think of anywhere the west managed to do it effectively. I read something back during the Iraq situation that said the Brits had managed it in malaysia a hundred and odd years ago but that was only because they'd already been there over a century and had a lot of local knowledge/ties etc.

[VictorCharlie]

We keep picking shitty partners