Soldier butchered in street in Woolwich

[Kirkland Laing]

This has nothing to do with lefties. Nothing to do with being armed. Nothing to do with giving in or grovelling and being a nation of bitches. It has nothing to do with child rape or mosques or doing things in God's name. There is no easy equation that will help you come up with a magic answer to quell the horror you feel inside at how low people can stoop. It is right to feel revulsion and anger and hate because such a barbarous act is truly inhumane and vile. Just don't let it make you stoop to their level. Don't go out and join the EDL and batter a Sikh because he is browner than you are. Don't assume the colour of the scum that did this is any more defining than the pasty white skin of Anders Breivik killing 72 innocent people in Norway means that all blonde haired white people with far right tendencies are potential murderers. People use all kinds of justification for horrendous acts of savagery but their excuses do nothing to alleviate the guilt that they put over their own heads.


The press itself while under a responsibility to print the facts has not helped the situation by publishing photographs to maximise circulation and indirectly promote these madmens deluded nonsense.

Its not about skin color it's about culture. The Muslim culture has become separate to the typical Western culture and though Muslims move here and there and are educated in Western schools and Universities they never assimilate to become Westernized meaning they don't have any allegiances to any nation, but only to their religion and their religion when followed to the letter is as intolerant as it gets.

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." - Jesus
Gospel of Luke 23:34

"May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets." - Prophet Muhammad
Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427


Those are the last words of the leaders of Christianity and Islam....big difference huh?

You are right in asserting that "religion when followed to the letter is as intolerant as it gets" and wrong in your quoting of Muhammad's last words.

"Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.....Remember one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds." It's all semantics anyway. I agree that multiculturalism and the idea that you move to another country or culture without assimilating the customs of your new home and respecting the laws of that land is about as intolerant as you can be, but also that that is what colonial countries have done all over the globe. The men that committed this atrocity were born here though I think. If you want to radicalise yourself and brainwash yourself there are plenty of people around willing to help you, but the Majority of British Muslims are not represented in the picture you paint of not being assimilated into British Life and culture.

The guy in the video was definitely born here. He spoke excellent English for somebody from south London.

[Dia bando]

I only have pure disgust for them so called human beings, that carried out that attack , on that
poor lad, this has disgusted me times like this I wonder, why what for.!
Butchered in the street for there crime, we should hang them no if or but's.

[El Kabong]

I knew Muslims that would justify these murders too. They weren't nuts, they weren't extremists, they were guys who happened to be muslim, but they'd still defend it.

I have Muslim friends and they are just as outraged and horrified about this as I am....I think it all comes down to assimilation into the Western culture.

What gets on my nerves and what worries me are the people on the left who try to defend the Muslim culture of intolerance seemingly with no sense of irony as those same lefties love the Women's Rights movement and LGBT equality/acceptance movement and those very same hardline Muslims would CRUSH those other liberal platforms if they gained any power at all. The hardcore no dancing, no drinking, Christians are one thing, but they have NOTHING on the devout hardline Muslims who stone to death women who have been raped...it's like the lefties are being so open minded all the common sense fell out of their heads.

Exactly who is defending intolerant cultures?

CAIR for one

[El Kabong]

There is a higher percentage of Muslims who supports this stuff compared to Hindus and Christians. But that's because Muslims are being bombed and killed in over a dozen conflicts worldwide right now. The United States has killed Muslim women and children in eight different countries in the past few years. Muslims are being killed by a Buddhist majority in Burma right now. If Christians and Hindus were being killed al over the globe by other religions then you'd see exactly the same amount of militancy/terrorism/ whatever from those religions.

....and the Jews? They always get off scot free those lucky bastards!


The Muslims dug their own hole with the US from the very START. Sure SOME Muslim nations were among the very first to recognize the United States as a sovereign nation, but the Barbary Pirates tried to strong arm the US into paying for passage and the newly founded United States Marine Corps got their first big taste of action in the First & Second Barbary Wars where the Devil Dogs stomped a mudhole in their asses.

Now has the US had it's poor run of plays in Muslim nations, sure as fuck we have but who hasn't? I mean everybody 100% of any kind of world power has had issues with the Muslims/Persians/Arabs going back to the days of Greece and Rome.

[IamInuit]

At the risk of being crucified and I touched on this in the Boston bombing thread these kinds of things are long overdue and to be perfectly honest have been almost predictable for years.
The West has this attitude that somehow our lives mean more is some grand scheme. Well they don’t and we sit around and for the most part live out our lives with little fear of being violently killed. Anybody here know the death toll of innocent people killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many wedding parties were crashed by bombs wiping out entire families for generations? When we cover such acts it’s written off if addressed at all as the costs of war or national interest or unfortunate mistakes. Its naïve to think that we as citizens will not pay for the actions we are indirectly involved in under the guise of foreign policy.

[ryanman]

At the risk of being crucified and I touched on this in the Boston bombing thread these kinds of things are long overdue and to be perfectly honest have been almost predictable for years.
The West has this attitude that somehow our lives mean more is some grand scheme. Well they don’t and we sit around and for the most part live out our lives with little fear of being violently killed. Anybody here know the death toll of innocent people killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many wedding parties were crashed by bombs wiping out entire families for generations? When we cover such acts it’s written off if addressed at all as the costs of war or national interest or unfortunate mistakes. Its naïve to think that we as citizens will not pay for the actions we are indirectly involved in under the guise of foreign policy.

Ok, granted, and I do bear this in mind. But when an angry British/US/Australian etc citizen in the middle east actively seeks out and and kills a completely innocent citizen of that country then that is a fair comparison. Not all killing is equal I'm afraid. Some may say that the fact this guy is a solider somehow makes it more legitimate (which is clearly bullshit in this case) but then they can have no such vindication for 9/11 and 7/7 for example. These attacks would only make any sense (yet would still be disgusting and wrong) if they only targeted military and government infrastructure/personnel. But they don't. When justifying killing our innocents by saying that their innocents are killed daily they are missing the point. Our governments taking actions that result in innocent Muslims being killed is wrong. We all know this and try to feel their pain. But then PURPOSEFULLY attacking our innocents (that do not support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) is not a like-for-like action. Over one million British citizens marched on the streets of London protesting against the war in Iraq, yet jihadists believe that they are still legitmate targets.

[El Kabong]

At the risk of being crucified and I touched on this in the Boston bombing thread these kinds of things are long overdue and to be perfectly honest have been almost predictable for years.
The West has this attitude that somehow our lives mean more is some grand scheme. Well they don’t and we sit around and for the most part live out our lives with little fear of being violently killed. Anybody here know the death toll of innocent people killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many wedding parties were crashed by bombs wiping out entire families for generations? When we cover such acts it’s written off if addressed at all as the costs of war or national interest or unfortunate mistakes. Its naïve to think that we as citizens will not pay for the actions we are indirectly involved in under the guise of foreign policy.

War has changed THIS MUCH....

The Blitz on the UK- just over 8 months 40,000-43,000 civilian deaths
Dresden - 4 bombing raids death toll 22,000-25,000 civilian deaths
Okinawa - 4/1/45-6/22/45 between 42,000-150,000 civilian deaths
Hiroshima - 1 bomb 90,000-160,000 civilian deaths
Nagasaki - 1 bomb 60,000-80,000 civilian deaths

Iraq War - Wikileaks/Classified Iraq War Logs 1/2004-12/2009 66,081 civilian deaths

As for Afghanistan According to the United Nations, the Taliban were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 2011


Seriously?.......Seriously? Hey and are the US, Japan, England, Germany resentful towards each other? Have they attacked each other since then? NO....the Muzzies have to get some thicker skin for the love of fuck



Yes I'll catch heat for this but war is war, it ain't patty cake its deadly and it's supposed to be

[imp]

Horrible attack.
Colour always matters, always does, always will.
Expect it to kick off in the same area with the edl and the muslims over the weekend.
Some people are just waiting for any excuse for violence.
So sad for the 2 year old son thats left without a father.

[ryanman]

BBC iPlayer - Watch Live - BBC One

Question Time just started. It has a former Islamic radical that is now chair of an anti-extremist think tank on it. It's a view from a point we haven't heard much from.

[ryanman]

Horrible attack.
Colour always matters, always does, always will.
Expect it to kick off in the same area with the edl and the muslims over the weekend.
Some people are just waiting for any excuse for violence.
So sad for the 2 year old son thats left without a father.

I was worried that it would kick off. But now I really don't think it will. Us British are pretty strong and resilent when it comes to being an inclusive and tolerant society.

[imp]

Horrible attack.
Colour always matters, always does, always will.
Expect it to kick off in the same area with the edl and the muslims over the weekend.
Some people are just waiting for any excuse for violence.
So sad for the 2 year old son thats left without a father.

I was worried that it would kick off. But now I really don't think it will. Us British are pretty strong and resilent when it comes to being an inclusive and tolerant society.

Lets hope so.

This will blow over and the mps will still continue to rob the country and the injured limbless soldiers returning from war wont even be given housing.

Man just cant rule man.

A higher force is needed.

[ryanman]

You know how we often hear 'ordinary Muslims condemn these acts'? Well, I have asked myself why we don't actually hear them condemning it, why we only hear white men condenming it in the name of Muslims, but today we HAVE heard Muslims from all corners of the UK condemning this loudly and clearly. I feel like they shouldn't have to in this case, much like us white christians didn't have to say publically how Breivik didn't represent us, but I feel like they did it anyway because they could feel it was really needed this time.
Go on 99.9% of Muslims!!!
Fuck the EDL.

[IamInuit]

At the risk of being crucified and I touched on this in the Boston bombing thread these kinds of things are long overdue and to be perfectly honest have been almost predictable for years.
The West has this attitude that somehow our lives mean more is some grand scheme. Well they don’t and we sit around and for the most part live out our lives with little fear of being violently killed. Anybody here know the death toll of innocent people killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? How many wedding parties were crashed by bombs wiping out entire families for generations? When we cover such acts it’s written off if addressed at all as the costs of war or national interest or unfortunate mistakes. Its naïve to think that we as citizens will not pay for the actions we are indirectly involved in under the guise of foreign policy.

War has changed THIS MUCH....

The Blitz on the UK- just over 8 months 40,000-43,000 civilian deaths
Dresden - 4 bombing raids death toll 22,000-25,000 civilian deaths
Okinawa - 4/1/45-6/22/45 between 42,000-150,000 civilian deaths
Hiroshima - 1 bomb 90,000-160,000 civilian deaths
Nagasaki - 1 bomb 60,000-80,000 civilian deaths

Iraq War - Wikileaks/Classified Iraq War Logs 1/2004-12/2009 66,081 civilian deaths

As for Afghanistan According to the United Nations, the Taliban were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 2011


Seriously?.......Seriously? Hey and are the US, Japan, England, Germany resentful towards each other? Have they attacked each other since then? NO....the Muzzies have to get some thicker skin for the love of fuck



Yes I'll catch heat for this but war is war, it ain't patty cake its deadly and it's supposed to be

Apparently it has changed this much and religion fundamentally had nothing to do with the examples you used. We invaded fundamentalist Muslim countries and bombed a bronze age country back to the stone age. Comparing ww2 to whats happening today is horse shit. I don't give two cents what the excuses are. We the West go around the world stepping on people and many of those people are stuck in a 5th century time warp. A family of 30 gets wiped out over a mistake and it does not even make the news here. A couple of us get killed and its 24/7 coverage. And apparently these people do hold grudges. I don't think they care whether Germany or Japan holds a grudge over WW2 or not. Fact of the matter is we operate with impunity all over their world and answer to nobody. In their mind this is retribution and obviously in its most brutal form. I'm not condoning this. It is unfortunately a sign of the times.

[smashup]

You know how we often hear 'ordinary Muslims condemn these acts'? Well, I have asked myself why we don't actually hear them condemning it, why we only hear white men condenming it in the name of Muslims, but today we HAVE heard Muslims from all corners of the UK condemning this loudly and clearly. I feel like they shouldn't have to in this case, much like us white christians didn't have to say publically how Breivik didn't represent us, but I feel like they did it anyway because they could feel it was really needed this time.
Go on 99.9% of Muslims!!!
Fuck the EDL.

Why fuck them..?

Are they beheading people in broad daylight ?

[Andre]

This has nothing to do with lefties. Nothing to do with being armed. Nothing to do with giving in or grovelling and being a nation of bitches. It has nothing to do with child rape or mosques or doing things in God's name. There is no easy equation that will help you come up with a magic answer to quell the horror you feel inside at how low people can stoop. It is right to feel revulsion and anger and hate because such a barbarous act is truly inhumane and vile. Just don't let it make you stoop to their level. Don't go out and join the EDL and batter a Sikh because he is browner than you are. Don't assume the colour of the scum that did this is any more defining than the pasty white skin of Anders Breivik killing 72 innocent people in Norway means that all blonde haired white people with far right tendencies are potential murderers. People use all kinds of justification for horrendous acts of savagery but their excuses do nothing to alleviate the guilt that they put over their own heads.


The press itself while under a responsibility to print the facts has not helped the situation by publishing photographs to maximise circulation and indirectly promote these madmens deluded nonsense.

You are right Greenbeanz, but there must be answers somewhere as to why there are seemingly more 'mentalists' that associate themselves with Islam than do any other religion/cause - or at least are mental enough to be willing to kill. Clearly the problem is not exclusive to Muslims, and I hope it goes without saying that this isn't indicative of the Islamic faith as a whole, but the occurances of these brutal acts of violence by those that do so under the name of Allah far outweigh the equally horrific actions of the likes of Breivik. I don't think it's reactionary or ignorant to just be aware of this and say it. But saying that is a long long long way from joining the EDL or such. These people clearly represent noone - but the fact that they themselves stated it was done in the name of Allah can't just be ignored.

Breivik killed 72. Is anyone really interested in the reasons he gave? or the fact that he smirked through his court case ? It's not about ignoring whose name they said it was done in the name of because like most religions Islam is often used as an excuse for brutality. It is not an excuse though so what more can you do? you can't pretend it doesn't exist and you can't reason with people who have put their fingers in their ears.

It has got to do with some things mentioned that are Islamic practices like child marriage/rape, as well as terrorism against the public and the mutilation of their young womens genitals,it all has to cease.

I bet those who aligned themselves with Breviks politics distanced themselves from him very smartly and stated they had nothing to do with the idiots deeper views or actions.

Thats all the Muslim community have to do as well,but they need to take that message back inside their Mosques and preach it in there to stop more idiots getting the same ideas and committing further acts in their name.


You can say it has nothing to do with them,(true but only personally).
It has got to do with them if they remain quiet in the Mosques about it,yet state publicly outside to us that Islam is a religion of peace. They need to do something about those within their sub groups who state the reverse then train others to act on it.

(It means in the long run a split in their own religion).