Lets end the Mike Tyson debate

[Beanflicker]

...and a prime Iron Mike Tyson circa 1986 to 1988 is no Lamon Brewster, Corrie Sanders, nor a Ross Purrity...

We're talking prime for prime. The Wlad of the last 6 years or so is a much better fighter than the Wlad who got steamrolled by those guys, much like the Tyson who got destroyed by Evander and Lewis wasn't the same as the guy from 88.

[bradlee180]

I don't think the "Lets end the Mike Tyson debate" thread is going to end the Mike Tyson debate...

[ray corso]

As a J.O. (junior olympic) and Open class amatuer up to the time he fought Evander Mike was the best "most entertaining" fighter in the world!! With Cus as his mentor and Teddy as the trainer and Jimmy as their advisor and Cayton handling the money Mike had a solid team with everyones assignments clearly understand and a great plan in order. They had the halls and the matchmakers they need to to develop the record and build the fan base, and they did!
Evander simply stated was Mikes Cryptonite! Evander won't back up and had enought skills and power to detear Mikes onslaught!!!

Its very true that without his team in place Mike became fragile, its not an excuse its the facts!!

I do believe the Evander show down would have been different and Mike could have been under control of himself and asctually would have boxed Evander to a decision win but Cus & Jimmy were gone. Teddy was replaced and Kevin was in and Mike got rid of Cayton for King!!! Thats the History!
Ray.

[Master]

Tyson was a very good inside fighter.sure he got held once in there at times but he did cause a lot of damage. He would have ripped the body of the klit brothers and then finished them off with head shots.

[ray corso]

I disagree with your assumtion that Tyson was good inside!! The only time ike fought inside is when his opponents back was against the ropes!!! He ould move up and get off then side step and get off again!! In the center of the ring the vast majority of the time Mike would hook his opponents arm(s) and NOT fight inside!! He knew that his opponents against the ropes were 80% on defense and in the middle of the ring it was even!! I'm stating the majority of the sequences Mike would NOT engage inside!! I remember Teddy Atlas commentating this exact topic during Tyson fight on ESPN and everyone who knew what Mike was comfortable doing and not doing knew he prefered to move in and get off but not stay inside!!! Ray.

[Master]

Thanks Ray.

[Spicoli]

I simply don't see Tyson beating Holyfield regardless of time. Being realistic it wouldn't have happened in 88 but had Douglas stayed on the canvas and it went off as planned he had the combination punching, hand speed, chin, tenacity and mental make up to pick his spots and keep Mike a step behind for win. Mike always squared after quick shifts and Holyfield has an understated ability to stare in the fire and stay smart in there.

[Master]

Holyfield is an inconsistent enigma heavyweight champion he could be brilliant against Tyson, Lewis 2, Bowe but very poor against Moorer, Cooper, Stewart sect.

[ray corso]

Hard to identify Evander at times! He sort of fought to his opponents caliber! He liked to give and take and he was almost to willing to give & take!! He took abuse that wasn't necessary at time it seems to keep the action flowing. I saw Evander at 175lbs and thought he was one of the best LtHvy I'd seen and that was in the amatuers! He was certainly a rare body type that could look good at 195 and 218lbs. A terrific fighter who was doing great with his career and financies and then began to loose his way, very sad to me. Evander is truely boxing modern day warrior! I hope he can let it go!
Ray

[bradlee180]

Squaring up as Mike Tyson did can allow more torque on the hooks and uppercuts, but the disadvantage is that you can be put off-balance easier. The instant that Tyson squared up, Holyfield would step forward and lean his shoulder into Tyson, putting him off-balance, and walk him backward, stopping Tyson's attack. Holyfield used that bald head of his coming in like that too sometimes...

[Spicoli]

Squaring up as Mike Tyson did can allow more torque on the hooks and uppercuts, but the disadvantage is that you can be put off-balance easier. The instant that Tyson squared up, Holyfield would step forward and lean his shoulder into Tyson, putting him off-balance, and walk him backward, stopping Tyson's attack. Holyfield used that bald head of his coming in like that too sometimes...

Bingo, good call. Wasn't too bad at ripping off left hooks or uppercuts in there either. Hey, at least he wasn't torquing arms off Ravishing Rick Rude style though.

[Spicoli]

Holyfield is an inconsistent enigma heavyweight champion he could be brilliant against Tyson, Lewis 2, Bowe but very poor against Moorer, Cooper, Stewart sect.

I'll go with Moorer but more off of Moorers handspeed and a hard jab that had GPS that night. Still, if 2nd round was ruled as it should have..10-9 with KD. Holyfield keeps the title.

Stewart was just a good solid brawl with two early heavys. I don't think he looked poor at all. Cooper caught a flat mentally worn Holyfiled...go from a Mike Tyson, to a Damiani, to a last minute Cooper in front of hometown it had to be a mind melt. Save for two right hands, as scary as they were, he had his ass handed to him throughout.

[El Kabong]

Like I said what do you fellows think about Tyson vs Moored or Bows ....consider the 3 options prime vs prime, provided Tyson didn't serve time, or when they actually could have fought.

[Spicoli]

He and Moorer were pretty much a safe bet if he beat Holyfield. I just can't see him holding up over 12 without Tyson breaking through at one point. Both were very close in regards to the amount of 'mental' baggage they could carry. Moorer was a boxing jab happy fool in that window and had reinvented himself from a free swinging seek and destroy guy, but to take Mike he would have needed some of that fire. Then again he went wild early with ancient Smith and was rocked. Nearly all the big to huge punchers he faced rocked him or dropped him not to mention some of the not so big. Moorer would have to fight a perfect fight with zero mistakes, he slowed down mentally and coasted...Tyson could lapse also but still cave a face made of lego pieces in. I think Tyson gets him out.

[El Kabong]

He and Moorer were pretty much a safe bet if he beat Holyfield. I just can't see him holding up over 12 without Tyson breaking through at one point. Both were very close in regards to the amount of 'mental' baggage they could carry. Moorer was a boxing jab happy fool in that window and had reinvented himself from a free swinging seek and destroy guy, but to take Mike he would have needed some of that fire. Then again he went wild early with ancient Smith and was rocked. Nearly all the big to huge punchers he faced rocked him or dropped him not to mention some of the not so big. Moorer would have to fight a perfect fight with zero mistakes, he slowed down mentally and coasted...Tyson could lapse also but still cave a face made of lego pieces in. I think Tyson gets him out.

I see Tyson vs Moorer like this, in the 3 ways I mentioned
1. Prime vs Prime: Mike Tyson by KO 4. Even in his Prime Moorer didn't have the greatest chin and a free swinging Tyson would have landed flush shots early on and I don't think MM would have taken it well...but it would have been the heavyweight version of Hagler-Hearns IMO not saying MM was a great fighter, but he was fun to watch and he gunned for KO's as much as anyone else.

2. Providing Tyson didn't serve time, they would have met around 1994 after MM beat Holyfield: A closer fight, Moorer probably weathers the first few onslaughts and maybe wins a few rounds due to his boxing more carefully, but I think Tyson eventually catches up with him before Tyson tired out. Tyson TKO 7

3. When they could have actually fought 1996 after MM beat Frans Botha: I actually think MM was a broken fighter at this point and even an older Tyson with less head movement and throwing fewer combinations would quickly dispose of a guy who just didn't have boxing in his heart after the loss to Foreman. Tyson KO 1


And Riddick Bowe vs Tyson? Any takers on that action?