Are you for or against intervening in Syria?

[El Kabong]

I'll leave it to one of the world's foremost international lawyers to answer this :


BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan

Yeah Mr. "Food for Oil" is well beyond reproach.

You're an ignorant cunt, Saddam didn't abide by the rules and guidelines laid out for him by the UN post-Persian Gulf War, you know it, I know it, Kofi dumbass Annan knows it....ergo the war was good to go based on that alone. Go be a jackass elsewhere, I'm tired of your constant bellyaching you stupid twat

[walrus]

Not an international popularity contest, an international treaty. Like the UN treaty. If you sign the UN treaty and then go off invading another country without agreement from the UN Security Council then you're going against the will of the international community and breaking the treaty you signed up to.

Or if you don't sign treaties that everybody else has signed up to like the chemical weapons treaty. Look at the small list of countries that haven't signed and you see the usual suspects when it comes to ignoring international law.

Please name the specific treaty that the US signed that stipulates what makes a military action legal. Mind you we've previously pointed out that the UN Charter is not binding international law. Outside of the US Congress and President there isn't any other legal process for American military action. End of story. Call it immoral, unpopular, etc but trying to apply a legal basis to war is plain absurd.

Agreed, the UN is useless. What they did in Rwanda alone should discredit them. Slavery still goes on in parts of Africa, Christians being killed all over the Middle East and what has the UN done. All you America bashers should get down on yours knees and kiss Old Glory, if not, we are going to invade your country then give you billions of dollars to rebuild, so there.

[VictorCharlie]

I got good laugh from this one. Just for you Miles.

[VictorCharlie]

""Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal." Annan

So the senior member of the biggest joke in the international community is upset no one asked his opinion first. Color me shocked but if you look at the quote, being in conformity with the charter is not a basis to call a military action illegal. The charter isn't binding international law. He also said "there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections" so while I don't believe the invasion right or necessary nor do I think a UN resolution amounts to squat but W did actually have a UN resolution to hang his hat on.

[Gandalf]

I'll leave it to one of the world's foremost international lawyers to answer this :


BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan

Yeah Mr. "Food for Oil" is well beyond reproach.

You're an ignorant cunt, Saddam didn't abide by the rules and guidelines laid out for him by the UN post-Persian Gulf War, you know it, I know it, Kofi dumbass Annan knows it....ergo the war was good to go based on that alone. Go be a jackass elsewhere, I'm tired of your constant bellyaching you stupid twat

It's funny how Saddam could be placed under UN sanctions resulting in the tremendous suffering of people who had done no wrong and yet Israel has never had to endure UN sanctions. The main problem with the UN is the United States itself who exercises the veto and bullies to get its way more than any other nation. For America to then lie and go in and invade a pathetically weakened nation was the act of a despicable coward and bully. I think you are one of the few still defending the Iraq war, Lyle. Most were right all along and others have revised their views. Almost nobody believes it was a just war and the fall out largely proves it.

The fact that the war criminals still walk free speaks volumes and which unknown African is being tried in the Hague this week? What a joke.

[VictorCharlie]

It's funny how Saddam could be placed under UN sanctions resulting in the tremendous suffering of people who had done no wrong and yet Israel has never had to endure UN sanctions.

Miles, that statement is pretty indicative of why I think the UN is a sham. The US/China/Russia are going to vote against anything not in their own interests or even anything in favor of the other. They have no real authority or moral consistency to objectively say this is good, this is bad much less some false pretense of legality.

[walrus]

Gandalf, May I inquire as to what country you reside in. You could even be American, many of us are anti-American. By the way, the UN has been all over Israel for years with more than 60 resolutions. I would say, if you want to make this discussion astute you should avoid sourcing one of the more corrupt and useless organizations in the world, the UN and their Blue Helmet troops who allow genocide to occur under their watch. The US should put a sanction on the UN and have them set up camp in some shithole like France.

[VictorCharlie]

Gandalf is a British-expat who has lived in S. Korea for many years now. Don't bother pointing out some of his mother country's missteps in the past. He holds them in contempt almost as much as he does the US.

[Gandalf]

It's funny how Saddam could be placed under UN sanctions resulting in the tremendous suffering of people who had done no wrong and yet Israel has never had to endure UN sanctions.

Miles, that statement is pretty indicative of why I think the UN is a sham. The US/China/Russia are going to vote against anything not in their own interests or even anything in favor of the other. They have no real authority or moral consistency to objectively say this is good, this is bad much less some false pretense of legality.

It is the closest we have to law. However, it is clearly open to abuse and needs reforming. As I say, China and Russia are on the whole pretty small fry abusers as compared to the US and its notorious veto on anything concerning Israel.

Where one resides is irrelevant to any argument. My nationality is likewise irrelevant. I don't give my country a free pass and neither the one where I live either. Anything goes with me, I speak it as I see. However, Korea is pretty dull politically. There are internal things of interest, but nobody on here would be interested. Property prices fell 4% last year. Captivating, I know. Things occasionally get more interesting when former Presidents jump off mountains or North Korea throws a wobbler, but certainly nothing on the scale of countries like America, Britain, or Israel which could really do with a few former leaders jumping off of mountains.

[walrus]

It's funny how Saddam could be placed under UN sanctions resulting in the tremendous suffering of people who had done no wrong and yet Israel has never had to endure UN sanctions.

Miles, that statement is pretty indicative of why I think the UN is a sham. The US/China/Russia are going to vote against anything not in their own interests or even anything in favor of the other. They have no real authority or moral consistency to objectively say this is good, this is bad much less some false pretense of legality.

It is the closest we have to law. However, it is clearly open to abuse and needs reforming. As I say, China and Russia are on the whole pretty small fry abusers as compared to the US and its notorious veto on anything concerning Israel.

Where one resides is irrelevant to any argument. My nationality is likewise irrelevant. I don't give my country a free pass and neither the one where I live either. Anything goes with me, I speak it as I see. However, Korea is pretty dull politically. There are internal things of interest, but nobody on here would be interested. Property prices fell 4% last year. Captivating, I know. Things occasionally get more interesting when former Presidents jump off mountains or North Korea throws a wobbler, but certainly nothing on the scale of countries like America, Britain, or Israel which could really do with a few former leaders jumping off of mountains.

Where one resides has everything to do with it, I now understand and feel bad for you.

[El Kabong]

It's funny how Saddam could be placed under UN sanctions resulting in the tremendous suffering of people who had done no wrong and yet Israel has never had to endure UN sanctions.

Miles, that statement is pretty indicative of why I think the UN is a sham. The US/China/Russia are going to vote against anything not in their own interests or even anything in favor of the other. They have no real authority or moral consistency to objectively say this is good, this is bad much less some false pretense of legality.

It is the closest we have to law. However, it is clearly open to abuse and needs reforming. As I say, China and Russia are on the whole pretty small fry abusers as compared to the US and its notorious veto on anything concerning Israel.

Where one resides is irrelevant to any argument. My nationality is likewise irrelevant. I don't give my country a free pass and neither the one where I live either. Anything goes with me, I speak it as I see. However, Korea is pretty dull politically. There are internal things of interest, but nobody on here would be interested. Property prices fell 4% last year. Captivating, I know. Things occasionally get more interesting when former Presidents jump off mountains or North Korea throws a wobbler, but certainly nothing on the scale of countries like America, Britain, or Israel which could really do with a few former leaders jumping off of mountains.

Where one resides has everything to do with it, I now understand and feel bad for you.

miles has 0 credibility in these debates because he stands for nothing. He lives in the haze of anarchy and academia where things look brilliant in practice but somehow never pan out in "the real world" but he of course pays that no mind at all. miles would like the world to end because humans are inherently evil is what it all boils down to. If there were only 2 people left on earth and one of them was miles, he'd be certain to destroy both humans thinking it would be better for the earth he's THAT delusional

[Gandalf]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

[El Kabong]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

It's not personal it's the truth. You're an anarchist, anarchy is chaos, and with chaos you get MORE suffering not less. You don't even like humans let alone certain groups of humans, so why should anyone listen to you drone on about an entire species that your despise?

When the United States helps anyone does miles give any credit? No, it's 100% evil...and as per usual I'm tired of your bullshit classroom preaching. You teach English to Koreans you're not solving jack shit with world problems, you don't live in reality which is why when you're faced with reality you're a drunken lunatic.

[walrus]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

Where you live and what you do has everything to do with your world view. You have not been talking about Syria, I really don't think you give a shit about them, you have been talking about America, against whom you are biased. Also, Christianity does not view humans as evil as evidenced by John 3:16. Stop spouting bias in your head as fact.

[Gandalf]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

It's not personal it's the truth. You're an anarchist, anarchy is chaos, and with chaos you get MORE suffering not less. You don't even like humans let alone certain groups of humans, so why should anyone listen to you drone on about an entire species that your despise?

When the United States helps anyone does miles give any credit? No, it's 100% evil...and as per usual I'm tired of your bullshit classroom preaching. You teach English to Koreans you're not solving jack shit with world problems, you don't live in reality which is why when you're faced with reality you're a drunken lunatic.

I believe anarchy is needed in places where totalitarianism has taken over. Whence I am all for the Korean freedom fighters who gave their lives against the Japanese. Likewise, it is why I am in favour of people like Manning and Snowden who are clearly proud Americans. If you don't break the rules then nothing will ever change, rules can and should be broken in the face of overwhelming oppression. In that regard I don't blame people overseas attacking American troops.

The argument that I don't live in reality is also ludicrous. How do you think I survive and live a decent middle class life? I don't do it by being completely insane and off my head waltzing around like Alice in Wonderland. I do it by working hard and trying to do my job better than anyone else. I have off days and doubts, but I get through it and persevere. Unlike all too many I use my rationality to survive. It's the genuinely insane who marry and have 3 kids, buy a home that is too big for them to afford and never plan for the future. I am far from insane in that regard, Lyle.

Also, what do you think I do for a living? My ability is based in the work that I do and that is how I run my life. I am a master of pedagogic grammar and preach it well. I think you have a warped perspective of me. I do a job and it has nothing to do with the me who talks about things on here. I live in reality and thus prepare and act around it. I think all too many of you are not living in reality with the TV obsession and ignorance of what your governments are doing.

I am well aware of everything and in that sense am completely in tune with reality. I think your posts reek of sour grapes because everything that has been said has turned out to be true. This isn't classroom preaching in the slightest, this stuff goes nowhere near my classrooms. It is transmitted to people like you. So stick it up your bra, you big nancy.