Are you for or against intervening in Syria?

[Gandalf]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

Where you live and what you do has everything to do with your world view. You have not been talking about Syria, I really don't think you give a shit about them, you have been talking about America, against whom you are biased. Also, Christianity does not view humans as evil as evidenced by John 3:16. Stop spouting bias in your head as fact.

You forgot to read the Old Testament.

Again you fail to back up your argument and so it is pretty asinine. If there is anything I say about America that is untrue then say it, otherwise it isn't biased and must be true. Also, you clearly know very little about me if you think I wouldn't hold the same views in the UK or in dozens of other countries. My views will only change with concrete policy changes and they haven't materialised which is something that even Lyle recognises in the case of Obama.

[El Kabong]

I believe anarchy is needed in places where totalitarianism has taken over. Whence I am all for the Korean freedom fighters who gave their lives against the Japanese. Likewise, it is why I am in favour of people like Manning and Snowden who are clearly proud Americans. If you don't break the rules then nothing will ever change, rules can and should be broken in the face of overwhelming oppression. In that regard I don't blame people overseas attacking American troops.

The argument that I don't live in reality is also ludicrous. How do you think I survive and live a decent middle class life? I don't do it by being completely insane and off my head waltzing around like Alice in Wonderland. I do it by working hard and trying to do my job better than anyone else. I have off days and doubts, but I get through it and persevere. Unlike all too many I use my rationality to survive. It's the genuinely insane who marry and have 3 kids, buy a home that is too big for them to afford and never plan for the future. I am far from insane in that regard, Lyle.

Also, what do you think I do for a living? My ability is based in the work that I do and that is how I run my life. I am a master of pedagogic grammar and preach it well. I think you have a warped perspective of me. I do a job and it has nothing to do with the me who talks about things on here. I live in reality and thus prepare and act around it. I think all too many of you are not living in reality with the TV obsession and ignorance of what your governments are doing.

I am well aware of everything and in that sense am completely in tune with reality. I think your posts reek of sour grapes because everything that has been said has turned out to be true. This isn't classroom preaching in the slightest, this stuff goes nowhere near my classrooms. It is transmitted to people like you. So stick it up your bra, you big nancy.

Anarchy doesn't work and you are a fool to believe in it. Why did the Republicans lose in the Spanish Civil War? Because they allied with the anarchists! The pigs. Anarchists are the scum of the Earth and true anarchists don't believe in peace they are just habitual boat rockers, they don't follow authority no matter who is in charge. If they were in charge and made rules for everyone, they'd break their own rules because it is their lot in life to fight against the establishment no matter who that establishment is. THAT is why I say you don't live in reality, you're hoping for something to happen but it will never happen, never ever...the anarchists always lose, because they fight against themselves just as much as they fight against the enemy. Anarchy is self destructive and THAT is why you like it, it reminds you of yourself.

There were dirtbags in the Spanish Civil War who refused to salute officers citing this as a reason "We figured the bullets and bombs couldn't tell the difference between a General and a Private so why should we?".....they had a fundamental lack of respect which was but a shadow of the fundamental flaw in their personalities, it is only a shame that all Anarchists aren't dead because though they will never achieve their dreams they'll sacrifice themselves to destroy yours.

Anarchists are a reason to believe in abortion they offer society nothing but trouble

[Gandalf]

I will share a little anecdote just to show how I don't connect with reality. I was reading Lyle's post with an incredulous expression, and it bugged me. Then I said to my wife, 'Listen to what this Lyle person has said about me and tell me what you think'. And so I read out that vindictive attacking post and shrugged my shoulders, 'What do you make of that?'. Her immediate reply was that it was 'Nonsense' and that he has 'no idea how good you are'. Then she gave me a hug and went to bed as she has to drive early to see her sister. See Lyle, not my words, but the words of my wife. That is reality and life as I live it.

All in all Lyle, you are a cunt and should be called as such for attacking me as usual for no good reason. You do it to Kirkland all the time too and really you should be reprimanded. You contribute nothing, but have a go at individuals and as usual ignore the bigger picture which is your fascist government.

[Gandalf]

I believe anarchy is needed in places where totalitarianism has taken over. Whence I am all for the Korean freedom fighters who gave their lives against the Japanese. Likewise, it is why I am in favour of people like Manning and Snowden who are clearly proud Americans. If you don't break the rules then nothing will ever change, rules can and should be broken in the face of overwhelming oppression. In that regard I don't blame people overseas attacking American troops.

The argument that I don't live in reality is also ludicrous. How do you think I survive and live a decent middle class life? I don't do it by being completely insane and off my head waltzing around like Alice in Wonderland. I do it by working hard and trying to do my job better than anyone else. I have off days and doubts, but I get through it and persevere. Unlike all too many I use my rationality to survive. It's the genuinely insane who marry and have 3 kids, buy a home that is too big for them to afford and never plan for the future. I am far from insane in that regard, Lyle.

Also, what do you think I do for a living? My ability is based in the work that I do and that is how I run my life. I am a master of pedagogic grammar and preach it well. I think you have a warped perspective of me. I do a job and it has nothing to do with the me who talks about things on here. I live in reality and thus prepare and act around it. I think all too many of you are not living in reality with the TV obsession and ignorance of what your governments are doing.

I am well aware of everything and in that sense am completely in tune with reality. I think your posts reek of sour grapes because everything that has been said has turned out to be true. This isn't classroom preaching in the slightest, this stuff goes nowhere near my classrooms. It is transmitted to people like you. So stick it up your bra, you big nancy.

Anarchy doesn't work and you are a fool to believe in it. Why did the Republicans lose in the Spanish Civil War? Because they allied with the anarchists! The pigs. Anarchists are the scum of the Earth and true anarchists don't believe in peace they are just habitual boat rockers, they don't follow authority no matter who is in charge. If they were in charge and made rules for everyone, they'd break their own rules because it is their lot in life to fight against the establishment no matter who that establishment is. THAT is why I say you don't live in reality, you're hoping for something to happen but it will never happen, never ever...the anarchists always lose, because they fight against themselves just as much as they fight against the enemy. Anarchy is self destructive and THAT is why you like it, it reminds you of yourself.

There were dirtbags in the Spanish Civil War who refused to salute officers citing this as a reason "We figured the bullets and bombs couldn't tell the difference between a General and a Private so why should we?".....they had a fundamental lack of respect which was but a shadow of the fundamental flaw in their personalities, it is only a shame that all Anarchists aren't dead because though they will never achieve their dreams they'll sacrifice themselves to destroy yours.

Anarchists are a reason to believe in abortion they offer society nothing but trouble

Abortion? Maybe the solution is not to breed as led by the Catholic church.

Anarchy is to stop a system from functioning and in that sense abortion is anarchy. I am all for it. Nobody asked to be born and the sooner adults realise that there can be more anarchy. However, it isn't just anarchy, it is an intelligent approach to living.

I'm an anarchist for sure, but I believe it is an intelligent approach to living. I like society having values, motivation, and a means to better oneself. However, when those things are gone anarchy is needed. If you don't think your children will inherit a fair chance then you need anarchy.

It isn't a dirty word. A society of people not producing children is a quiet form of serious anarchy.

[El Kabong]

I will share a little anecdote just to show how I don't connect with reality. I was reading Lyle's post with an incredulous expression, and it bugged me. Then I said to my wife, 'Listen to what this Lyle person has said about me and tell me what you think'. And so I read out that vindictive attacking post and shrugged my shoulders, 'What do you make of that?'. Her immediate reply was that it was 'Nonsense' and that he has 'no idea how good you are'. Then she gave me a hug and went to bed as she has to drive early to see her sister. See Lyle, not my words, but the words of my wife. That is reality and life as I live it.

All in all Lyle, you are a cunt and should be called as such for attacking me as usual for no good reason. You do it to Kirkland all the time too and really you should be reprimanded. You contribute nothing, but have a go at individuals and as usual ignore the bigger picture which is your fascist government.

Is this the same wife you complain about constantly or is there a new one?

[Gandalf]

Do I complain about my wife constantly? Again, no I don't. She is one of a few people that know who I am to the core. That's what I was trying to say, if I was acting like Charlie Sheen then clearly there could be no normalcy. If I was Michael Jackson, then things would be weird. My life is not in the slightest as you tried to paint it in that post and so it was you projecting more than anything else. I am not stomping the streets inciting revolution. In fact, you are no less political than I am and you argue your case on a forum just as I do.

[Gandalf]

Basically what it all means is that people who will hide in shadows and lash out when they feel like it, but reveal nothing are poison. Lyle for example is against any involvement in Syria and yet will find any moment to lash out at me and talk all kinds of shite.

And yet does Lyle have a girlfriend? Has he ever picked up a girl without a gun aimed at her head? Has he failed to realise that by insulting Obama he is an obvious racist?

Anyone can make arguments like that, but it is pathetic and that is what the last few pages are.

[Kirkland Laing]

I'll leave it to one of the world's foremost international lawyers to answer this :


BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan

Yeah Mr. "Food for Oil" is well beyond reproach.

You're an ignorant cunt, Saddam didn't abide by the rules and guidelines laid out for him by the UN post-Persian Gulf War, you know it, I know it, Kofi dumbass Annan knows it....ergo the war was good to go based on that alone. Go be a jackass elsewhere, I'm tired of your constant bellyaching you stupid twat

What's up, brother cousin? What's this food for oil thing you're on about? And let me guess, in between multitasking you're now a qualified lawyer who's become an internationally famous expert in international law? Oh wait, no, you're a Neo-Confederate manchild ranting away in his mother's basement.

[Kirkland Laing]

Not an international popularity contest, an international treaty. Like the UN treaty. If you sign the UN treaty and then go off invading another country without agreement from the UN Security Council then you're going against the will of the international community and breaking the treaty you signed up to.

Or if you don't sign treaties that everybody else has signed up to like the chemical weapons treaty. Look at the small list of countries that haven't signed and you see the usual suspects when it comes to ignoring international law.

Please name the specific treaty that the US signed that stipulates what makes a military action legal. Mind you we've previously pointed out that the UN Charter is not binding international law. Outside of the US Congress and President there isn't any other legal process for American military action. End of story. Call it immoral, unpopular, etc but trying to apply a legal basis to war is plain absurd.

Agreed, the UN is useless. What they did in Rwanda alone should discredit them. Slavery still goes on in parts of Africa, Christians being killed all over the Middle East and what has the UN done. All you America bashers should get down on yours knees and kiss Old Glory, if not, we are going to invade your country then give you billions of dollars to rebuild, so there.

When America pays out billions of dollars in reconstruction money who gets the billions of dollars? Who do they pay those billions to?

[Kirkland Laing]

""Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal." Annan

So the senior member of the biggest joke in the international community is upset no one asked his opinion first. Color me shocked but if you look at the quote, being in conformity with the charter is not a basis to call a military action illegal. The charter isn't binding international law. He also said "there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections" so while I don't believe the invasion right or necessary nor do I think a UN resolution amounts to squat but W did actually have a UN resolution to hang his hat on.

The UN is only ineffective because the member with the biggest military and the longest history of military aggression routinely ignores the rules it signed up to. Bush spent two months trying to get a UN resolution authorising the invasion, failed, and gave up.


Earlier in the day, British and U.S. diplomats, facing certain defeat on the Security Council, withdrew a resolution that would have cleared the way for war. Though Bush on Sunday vowed another day of "working the phones," it quickly became clear that as many as 11 of 15 council members remained opposed and the effort was abandoned by 10 a.m.


The withdrawal of the resolution without a vote was a double climb-down for Bush. On Feb. 22, he had predicted victory at the United Nations, and on March 6 he said he wanted a vote regardless of the outcome.

[...]

Bush defiantly asserted a right to attack Iraq, even without sanction from the Security Council. "The United States of America has the sovereign authority to use force in assuring its own national security," he said. "The United States and our allies are authorized to use force in ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a question of authority. It is a question of will."

War looms as Bush issues final warning | The Honolulu Advertiser | Hawaii's Newspaper

[walrus]

Not an international popularity contest, an international treaty. Like the UN treaty. If you sign the UN treaty and then go off invading another country without agreement from the UN Security Council then you're going against the will of the international community and breaking the treaty you signed up to.

Or if you don't sign treaties that everybody else has signed up to like the chemical weapons treaty. Look at the small list of countries that haven't signed and you see the usual suspects when it comes to ignoring international law.

Please name the specific treaty that the US signed that stipulates what makes a military action legal. Mind you we've previously pointed out that the UN Charter is not binding international law. Outside of the US Congress and President there isn't any other legal process for American military action. End of story. Call it immoral, unpopular, etc but trying to apply a legal basis to war is plain absurd.

Agreed, the UN is useless. What they did in Rwanda alone should discredit them. Slavery still goes on in parts of Africa, Christians being killed all over the Middle East and what has the UN done. All you America bashers should get down on yours knees and kiss Old Glory, if not, we are going to invade your country then give you billions of dollars to rebuild, so there.

When America pays out billions of dollars in reconstruction money who gets the billions of dollars? Who do they pay those billions to?

just about any shady figure in said country, usually funneled to Swiss accounts.

[Kirkland Laing]

Not an international popularity contest, an international treaty. Like the UN treaty. If you sign the UN treaty and then go off invading another country without agreement from the UN Security Council then you're going against the will of the international community and breaking the treaty you signed up to.

Or if you don't sign treaties that everybody else has signed up to like the chemical weapons treaty. Look at the small list of countries that haven't signed and you see the usual suspects when it comes to ignoring international law.

Please name the specific treaty that the US signed that stipulates what makes a military action legal. Mind you we've previously pointed out that the UN Charter is not binding international law. Outside of the US Congress and President there isn't any other legal process for American military action. End of story. Call it immoral, unpopular, etc but trying to apply a legal basis to war is plain absurd.

Agreed, the UN is useless. What they did in Rwanda alone should discredit them. Slavery still goes on in parts of Africa, Christians being killed all over the Middle East and what has the UN done. All you America bashers should get down on yours knees and kiss Old Glory, if not, we are going to invade your country then give you billions of dollars to rebuild, so there.

When America pays out billions of dollars in reconstruction money who gets the billions of dollars? Who do they pay those billions to?

just about any shady figure in said country, usually funneled to Swiss accounts.

How about American corporations like Halliburton and Bechtel? The corporations Cheney and Rumsfeld used to run?

[walrus]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

Where you live and what you do has everything to do with your world view. You have not been talking about Syria, I really don't think you give a shit about them, you have been talking about America, against whom you are biased. Also, Christianity does not view humans as evil as evidenced by John 3:16. Stop spouting bias in your head as fact.

You forgot to read the Old Testament.

Again you fail to back up your argument and so it is pretty asinine. If there is anything I say about America that is untrue then say it, otherwise it isn't biased and must be true. Also, you clearly know very little about me if you think I wouldn't hold the same views in the UK or in dozens of other countries. My views will only change with concrete policy changes and they haven't materialised which is something that even Lyle recognises in the case of Obama.

Need I remind you that the old testament is pre Christian or does that not fit into your thinking

[Gandalf]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

Where you live and what you do has everything to do with your world view. You have not been talking about Syria, I really don't think you give a shit about them, you have been talking about America, against whom you are biased. Also, Christianity does not view humans as evil as evidenced by John 3:16. Stop spouting bias in your head as fact.

You forgot to read the Old Testament.

Again you fail to back up your argument and so it is pretty asinine. If there is anything I say about America that is untrue then say it, otherwise it isn't biased and must be true. Also, you clearly know very little about me if you think I wouldn't hold the same views in the UK or in dozens of other countries. My views will only change with concrete policy changes and they haven't materialised which is something that even Lyle recognises in the case of Obama.

Need I remind you that the old testament is pre Christian or does that not fit into your thinking

So you only accept the post rehab God? Fair enough!

[walrus]

I see it has become personal again, Lyle.

Where I live has nothing to do with the crisis in Syria. If I was living in England my views would be the same as you well know. Likewise, the work that I do has nothing to do with having views on international political affairs. I do a job, a peaceful job, and that is all that there is to that. It has nothing to do with Syria. I do well, but that doesn't mean that I have no values. If I don't enjoy what I do then I will look for another teaching job because teaching is what I do. My rebellion is living overseas as a sojourner, but I have studied to teach and teach I shall. You say I stand for nothing, but what the heck do you stand for? I live for my family and the faint hope that the homeland can improve itself. I want good things for the UK, it angers me that it isn't what it should be.

The Christian faith is that humans are inherently evil, but I don't adhere to that. I don't do evil things and most people don't do evil things. However, concentrations of power are very prone to doing evil things and I just point out where the leading concentrations of power do just that. US foreign policy of 50 years has shown it repeatedly, revelations about your secret services are likewise showing a pull towards wrongdoing, those are just the facts.

I don't want the world to end, I just want people to aspire to be better people and to care for one another more. The politics has to lead that from the front as society has shown it can't level the playing field. I don't think the West practices caring very well with broken families being the norm rather than the exception, with governments hell bent on privatising everything they can, with jobs being outsourced in their millions, with state pensions being funneled into hedge funds, with 12 million Americans relying on tips to top up their 2 dollars and 14 cents per hour. It is a sick, sick, state of affairs and I feel little regard for any of the people that have caused it. Would I like to see those responsible brought to account for their crimes against society? Sure, I would. However, I am not advocating nuclear apocalypse or anything so drastic.

As for Walrus, this is a decent place to live and with the right skills and qualifications, you can do well and I do. That however has nothing to do with politics nor Syria. I could be doing the work that I do in 4 dozen countries and my political views would be the same. It is an asinine argument.

Where you live and what you do has everything to do with your world view. You have not been talking about Syria, I really don't think you give a shit about them, you have been talking about America, against whom you are biased. Also, Christianity does not view humans as evil as evidenced by John 3:16. Stop spouting bias in your head as fact.

You forgot to read the Old Testament.

Again you fail to back up your argument and so it is pretty asinine. If there is anything I say about America that is untrue then say it, otherwise it isn't biased and must be true. Also, you clearly know very little about me if you think I wouldn't hold the same views in the UK or in dozens of other countries. My views will only change with concrete policy changes and they haven't materialised which is something that even Lyle recognises in the case of Obama.

Need I remind you that the old testament is pre Christian or does that not fit into your thinking

So you only accept the post rehab God? Fair enough!

it just proves you are making argument against that which you know very little of. It's called contempt prior to investigation.