Whats should a takedown be worth in MMA?

**VictorCharlie** · 09-01-2006 05:49 AM

I just watched the BJ Penn/GSP fight again. There was no question that BJ won the first round, but the 2nd and 3rd rounds were very very close, with the only difference being that GSP scored a couple of takedowns. GSP ends up getting the decision basically because of the take downs. This is the same thing that plagued Nick Diaz in his three consecutive decision losses. When I say take down I don't mean sweat judo throw like parysian does or power slam (hughes like) I mean the usual single leg takedown in to the guard. My thing is the takedown is used to either setup GnP or submit your opponent so should you really get points for it? And if so shouldn't you also get points for every time your able to stand up after being taken down?

**Von Milash** · 09-01-2006 03:43 PM

Interesting question, but no. Not IMO. But for a clear reversal, yes.

I watched it last night for the first time. I scored it 29-28 GSP. He did control rounds 2 and 3 as he was the only one doing anything of consequence, and round 1, despite getting bloodied up, he did score a lot of nice leg kicks. R1 was closer than it looked too, IMO. (some guys are just bleeders).

Was penn ever on top of gsp? I can't even recall, but I don't think so.

**VictorCharlie** · 09-01-2006 06:22 PM

Von technically if your are in someone elses guard they are in the dominant position. So unless you are landing good shots in someones guard really you are being dominated or at least controlled(especially a BJJ blackbelt like Penn). Thats my point about takedowns. Quite often the takedowner often ends up in the guard. I'd change the point system on takedowns. I'd only score it if the takedowner ended up in a dominate position(mount, sidecontrol, halfguard or rear mount). I'd also give some points for "slams" versus takedowns. Like when Rampage picks guys up and slams from inside their guard. That shit is awesome.

**Von Milash** · 09-02-2006 03:12 AM

a slam clearly won gsp R2 against penn. I'm surprised more guys don't try to use slams as a defensive move. I guess you open yourself to a RNC if it fails.

**Heavy D** · 09-03-2006 01:22 AM

You guys have pretty much said it, but a takedown shouldnt be worth Jack Diddly.

Slams, or takedowns in side control, yes. Takedown into guard. No.

Takedowns aren't worth ANYTHING unless you do something with it.

What I'd like to see are actually more points for attempted submissions. How many times do you see a wrestler take down a BJJ guy. The wrestler just lays in the BJJ guard and throws a few weak punches and elbows. In the meantime, the BJJ is going for an armbar, then a kimura, then guillotine, then another armbar....always working. Once they stand again, its just rinse and repeat the whole fight. Then the wrestler wins the fight because he had more takedowns, even though the BJJ did more.

Long story short, a takedown shouldn't be considered any more than you would consider a clinch, or a jab. Its not something that actually MEANS much, more like something you use to do/set up something else. Jab isnt the greatest analogy, but you get the idea.