Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition

[SlimTrae]

It's hard for me to say Floyd has cherry picked his way for straight 18 years.

My knock on his competiton is : fighting Zab after he lost to Baldomir.
Not fighting Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito @ WW win they were on the winning side of their careers.

I respect him for 18 years:1 knockdown ( his glove scraped the canvas)
Beat undefeated fighters: Diego Corrales, Ricky Hatton & Canelo

Defeated Mosley after Shane mugged Margarito
+ His last 4-5 fights came against fighters all in their 20's: Ortiz, Guerrero, Canelo & Maidana

My knock with Pacquiao was fighting David Diaz at LW, but not undefeated Juan Diaz (JMM did) or the guy who beat Juan Diaz (Nate Campbell) or the linear champ at the time Casamayor (JMM did) or then undefeated Michael Katsidis (JMM)

@ the time it looked like JMM was chasing Pac UP in weight, while cleaning out divisions.

I totally blame Arum as IMO Pac would fight anyone, but he fought more catchweights than a mutha.

Today they claimed he has won titles in 8 divisions- BUT if you look at what he weighed fight night -not the weigh in against MAB in 03' it was 138, then years later against Margarito @ catchweight it was 147.

How in the hell does a man win 8 different weight classes while coming in between 138-147 from 2003-2014? Catchweighting his ass all the way to the Boxing Hall of Fame.

I do respect Pac for the way he ends fights. No question marks.

In conclusion: Morales outboxed him fight one & busted him up-
JMM & he fought like Frazier-Ali: no definitive winner, rather two guys who know each other too well for a clear winner.

His best win to me is over a young undefeated Bradley- As Hatton proved China chin with Jurango and even stopped by moderate puncher PBF.
Pac totally outclassed Margarito and Rios, great wins over (mediocre fighters)

Floyd hands down has the best career, best resume and fought them more on their terms, while Pac beat most of hs fighters at catchweights, or after they recently lost.

Pac is a great fighter, while Floyd has a great record. Somehow they both cancel each other out..
as they both have question marks. (sorry 4 the long post)

[Beanflicker]

Like with any topic, most people believe what they want to believe and either choose to not look at facts and think critically, or they're incapable of real critical thinking. Most people hate Mayweather and want to believe he's overrated, that he's a coward, that he carefully ducked and hand-picked his way to success, ect. Ok, right, the guy who's gone 18 years undefeated and spent 16 years fighting on a championship level stinks and would have been average in any other era. Cool. :roll eyes:

Floyd's been opportunistic with opponents at times for sure, but to act like that is something unique to Floyd is just disingenuous. Guys have been doing it forever, that's why they have managers and handlers choosing their fights.

[mikeeod]

Like with any topic, most people believe what they want to believe and either choose to not look at facts and think critically, or they're incapable of real critical thinking. Most people hate Mayweather and want to believe he's overrated, that he's a coward, that he carefully ducked and hand-picked his way to success, ect. Ok, right, the guy who's gone 18 years undefeated and spent 16 years fighting on a championship level stinks and would have been average in any other era. Cool. :roll eyes:

Floyd's been opportunistic with opponents at times for sure, but to act like that is something unique to Floyd is just disingenuous. Guys have been doing it forever, that's why they have managers and handlers choosing their fights.

You seem like a good guy who is pretty smart, so don't take this as a personal attack or bashing you in any way. I feel like the majority of Floyd fans are hyper sensitive and act like the guy is untouchable or above critcism. I can say that Floyd is an ATG, phenomenal fighter, but disagree that he is the GOAT or fought better comp than his contemporaries and Floyd fans freak. It goes from what I said to me thinking he's a bum who ducks everyone and a coward with a glass jaw. That is what kills the discussions, people just try to completely distort what you say in an attempt to make your points invalid...

[ruthless rocco]

Floyd is the GOAT in the business of boxing. Undeniable fact!

[Master]

Floyd is the GOAT in the business of boxing. Undeniable fact!

I am sure Holyfield and Tyson made more money than he did.

[ruthless rocco]

Floyd is the GOAT in the business of boxing. Undeniable fact!

I am sure Holyfield and Tyson made more money than he did.

I'm sure Floyd has actually deposited more money into his bank accounts then those two. They may have made more money but they didn't touch a lot of it.

[ruthless rocco]

Actually, a quick google search says Evander made between $250 & $300 million.
Tyson between $300 and $400 million.
Floyd's career earnings just passed $400 million as of the Maidana fight.

[Beanflicker]

You seem like a good guy who is pretty smart, so don't take this as a personal attack or bashing you in any way. I feel like the majority of Floyd fans are hyper sensitive and act like the guy is untouchable or above critcism. I can say that Floyd is an ATG, phenomenal fighter, but disagree that he is the GOAT or fought better comp than his contemporaries and Floyd fans freak. It goes from what I said to me thinking he's a bum who ducks everyone and a coward with a glass jaw. That is what kills the discussions, people just try to completely distort what you say in an attempt to make your points invalid...

Well firstly, my post wasn't aimed at you in particular and was in no way a summarization of your personal views of Mayweather. I think you were one of the more reasonable Floyd haters and we probably only disagree on a few issues about it.

Secondly, it depends on what Floyd you're talking about. I'm not emotionally invested in Mayweather because I think Floyd the person is a piece of shit. He's a criminal, a degenerate, a woman-beater, an idiot (who was lucky enough to surround himself with smart guys), an ego-maniac, ect ect. He's an asshole, so I can understand why so many hate him.

But if you're talking Floyd the boxer, there really isn't a whole lot to criticize. He's a genius in the ring, his in-ring skills and knowledge are off the charts, and he hasn't lost a fight in 18 years. Too many boxing fans try to discredit his career, but at the end of the day you have to give the devil his due.

[Beanflicker]

Actually, a quick google search says Evander made between $250 & $300 million.
Tyson between $300 and $400 million.
Floyd's career earnings just passed $400 million as of the Maidana fight.

Yeah and like you said, Floyd kept a much larger percentage of his purses than those guys did.

That being said, there's no doubt in my mind that Floyd will end up bankrupt like those guys did.

[imp]

Floyd would never end up bankrupt.

Obviously no one can defend his antics outside the ring as floyd and manny are complete opposites including style of fighting.

I will always accept like many other fans that might not like floyd the person that he is a complete genuis in the ring and the best of this era.

Manny is a likable guy but surely its reasonable to accept from every fan that he cant be even considered to be the best until he beats floyd.

Its not hard to understand.

Put away the hate and whatever stereotyping a person might have and concentrate on their skills in the ring and plus points both fighters have.

No one can ignore mannys rise to the top and he has destroyed many opponents but he has also taken losses to opponents that we have all agreed that floyd would never have lost too.

Just think if manny had floyds opponents from 1-47 and I think we can all honestly say he would never be undefeated.

Its not all about losses but in this thread we are talking about opponents so its unfair to skip over the losses pac has had and also the difficult fight floyd had with castillo.

Just imagine it if manny pacquio was undefeated and had advisors (rather than a boss) with hundreds and millions for each fight!

He made a bad move signing up to bob arum again and that was a massive up yours to the floyd camp.

[SlimTrae]

I try to deal only with Floyd the boxer, not the person, but I gotta take a swing at the bankrupt comment.

When I lived in Atlanta, Holyfield was at the top of his game- and made some pretty good investments (so it seemed)-- from his own car dealership to helping the creation of an olympic center (I left before he finished it..,if he did.)

While he did buy a mansion the size of a shopping mall, he wasn't a wild spender across the board- even adding on the 8,9 or 22 kids he has, that didn't bankrupt him, alone.

My point is: Floyd makes investments in what? Making it rain in the strip clubs? I can only make it drizzle, but if I could make it rain, for what?

He buys cars & Jewlery, like normal people buys socks and drawz. Cars that I can only imagine him selling them off, when the IRS will do to him what they did to Holyfield, Ali back to Joe Louis.
Does he even donate to the right sources so he can deduct it come tax time?

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Holmes & the great Walter Payton are examples of how Floyd can keep his loot & maintain a lavish lifestyle- - those guys invested in themselves and in land (property)-and not in the strip clubs or stock market or the hot thing of the day; google or some shit like that..

Only an opinion, but PBF will definately have money issues within 5 years of his retirement. He's too materialistic not to.

As far as PBF the boxer: Damn; 18 years and every style imagineable-he has faced & defeated.

[mikeeod]

I try to deal only with Floyd the boxer, not the person, but I gotta take a swing at the bankrupt comment.

When I lived in Atlanta, Holyfield was at the top of his game- and made some pretty good investments (so it seemed)-- from his own car dealership to helping the creation of an olympic center (I left before he finished it..,if he did.)

While he did buy a mansion the size of a shopping mall, he wasn't a wild spender across the board- even adding on the 8,9 or 22 kids he has, that didn't bankrupt him, alone.

My point is: Floyd makes investments in what? Making it rain in the strip clubs? I can only make it drizzle, but if I could make it rain, for what?

He buys cars & Jewlery, like normal people buys socks and drawz. Cars that I can only imagine him selling them off, when the IRS will do to him what they did to Holyfield, Ali back to Joe Louis.
Does he even donate to the right sources so he can deduct it come tax time?

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Holmes & the great Walter Payton are examples of how Floyd can keep his loot & maintain a lavish lifestyle- - those guys invested in themselves and in land (property)-and not in the strip clubs or stock market or the hot thing of the day; google or some shit like that..

Only an opinion, but PBF will definately have money issues within 5 years of his retirement. He's too materialistic not to.

As far as PBF the boxer: Damn; 18 years and every style imagineable-he has faced & defeated.

Agreed with pretty much everything in your post until your last comment. Overall great post. Would just ask: what tall, rangy boxer puncher like Hearns or Vernon Forrest did Floyd beat? That is the one style I'm sure would give him fits. Good lateral movement and jab, with the threat of a big shot backing those attributes up. I would be interested to see Floyd vs a truly elite/great infighter also. Hatton n Castillo especially gave him fits. I wonder what an Aaron Pryor, JC Chavez, Duran or Armstrong would've done. Before guys accuse me of hating, not saying Floyd stands no chance or would definitely lose, just think they push him to either be as great as he claims or prove that he isn't.

[Beanflicker]

I guarantee Floyd will be broke within a few years of retiring. Frivolous luxury spending, gambling addiction, large entourage and hangers-on, ect.

He'll be back in jail on some charges, and he'll be broke. He's a boxing genius but outside the ring he's a thug.

[mikeeod]

You seem like a good guy who is pretty smart, so don't take this as a personal attack or bashing you in any way. I feel like the majority of Floyd fans are hyper sensitive and act like the guy is untouchable or above critcism. I can say that Floyd is an ATG, phenomenal fighter, but disagree that he is the GOAT or fought better comp than his contemporaries and Floyd fans freak. It goes from what I said to me thinking he's a bum who ducks everyone and a coward with a glass jaw. That is what kills the discussions, people just try to completely distort what you say in an attempt to make your points invalid...

Well firstly, my post wasn't aimed at you in particular and was in no way a summarization of your personal views of Mayweather. I think you were one of the more reasonable Floyd haters and we probably only disagree on a few issues about it.

Secondly, it depends on what Floyd you're talking about. I'm not emotionally invested in Mayweather because I think Floyd the person is a piece of shit. He's a criminal, a degenerate, a woman-beater, an idiot (who was lucky enough to surround himself with smart guys), an ego-maniac, ect ect. He's an asshole, so I can understand why so many hate him.

But if you're talking Floyd the boxer, there really isn't a whole lot to criticize. He's a genius in the ring, his in-ring skills and knowledge are off the charts, and he hasn't lost a fight in 18 years. Too many boxing fans try to discredit his career, but at the end of the day you have to give the devil his due.

Haha. That is my point, my man. I really like Floyd and think he is brilliant in the ring. I constantly say he is an ATG n along with Hop n Ward the last of the truly skilled, elite fighters. Despite all of those statements of admiration, you classify me as a "reasonable Floyd hater"?!?!?! You see the disconnect there, right?

[walrus]

You seem like a good guy who is pretty smart, so don't take this as a personal attack or bashing you in any way. I feel like the majority of Floyd fans are hyper sensitive and act like the guy is untouchable or above critcism. I can say that Floyd is an ATG, phenomenal fighter, but disagree that he is the GOAT or fought better comp than his contemporaries and Floyd fans freak. It goes from what I said to me thinking he's a bum who ducks everyone and a coward with a glass jaw. That is what kills the discussions, people just try to completely distort what you say in an attempt to make your points invalid...

Well firstly, my post wasn't aimed at you in particular and was in no way a summarization of your personal views of Mayweather. I think you were one of the more reasonable Floyd haters and we probably only disagree on a few issues about it.

Secondly, it depends on what Floyd you're talking about. I'm not emotionally invested in Mayweather because I think Floyd the person is a piece of shit. He's a criminal, a degenerate, a woman-beater, an idiot (who was lucky enough to surround himself with smart guys), an ego-maniac, ect ect. He's an asshole, so I can understand why so many hate him.

But if you're talking Floyd the boxer, there really isn't a whole lot to criticize. He's a genius in the ring, his in-ring skills and knowledge are off the charts, and he hasn't lost a fight in 18 years. Too many boxing fans try to discredit his career, but at the end of the day you have to give the devil his due.

Haha. That is my point, my man. I really like Floyd and think he is brilliant in the ring. I constantly say he is an ATG n along with Hop n Ward the last of the truly skilled, elite fighters. Despite all of those statements of admiration, you classify me as a "reasonable Floyd hater"?!?!?! You see the disconnect there, right?

I think this conversation sums it up. Most of us who don't like Floyd still appreciate and admire his boxing. I have never been able to get over his jab, it's a thing of beauty. We don't like him cause he's a prick and a women beater.