The Myth of the British National Health Servi

[Kirkland Laing]

I've just spent nearly two months in hospital so have current first-hand experience of the good and bad. I waited 14 hours to get a bed on a ward, but in my experience, considering the daily pressure nurses/staff are under, the actual care was excellent - the majority are competent at their job (which I guess should be the expected average), with every Nurse Ratched there were half-a-dozen angels.

Can't believe how many people live in their own filth (before being forced to clean), shit and piss themselves and refuse to speak english (the last point is not linked to the others). And the amount that have the cheek to demand a special/particular menu. And get physical/abusive with the nurses (always female nurses). And should be in a mental home. And are fucking time wasters (some poor souls definitely/obviously enjoyed living in the hospital more than outside).

A shout out to the young Filipino nurses - several on my ward - who were the most excellent/dedicated/caring/upbeat lovely people i've ever came across. An eye opener for anyone that believes all immigration is a wrongun.

Hope everything is OK mate.

[Kirkland Laing]

You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.

So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.

#1. Where did I type that Kirkland?

#2. No Obamacare doesn't work as good as the Private system it is decidedly more expensive both in premiums and deductibles.



At the end of the day the young healthy people will have to subsidize the old and sickly. It's the same with good drivers subsidizing bad drivers when it comes to auto insurance, but there comes a time when an Auto Insurance Company can cut it's losses on an insured....no such thing exists in the health insurance world anymore. People living longer and people having fewer children will only make things worse.

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system. Much lower running costs, much more efficient operation and so on. That's just fact.

And yes, the young subsidise the old in every healthcare system. That's why privatising medicare, turning it into a "premium support" system where comprehensive coverage is scrapped and oldies have to buy a private insurance policy, can never work.

If you think it's difficult to get a decent value policy when you're 35 try it when you're 75.


Here's what Trump has to say about his health insurance plans.


“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump told the Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
He added that under his plan, people "can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) has said lawmakers planned to take a bottom-up approach to replacing Obamacare in piece-meal fashion through the committee process, but according to the Post, Trump said his plan was nearly ready and that he was confident it would pass Congress.
“I think we will get approval. I won’t tell you how, but we will get approval. You see what’s happened in the House in recent weeks,” Trump said, pointing to the kerfuffle when House leaders had to withdraw plans to gut Office of Congressional Ethics after Trump tweeted against the idea.
Even the few details Trump provided about his plan -- “lower numbers, much lower deductibles,” according to the Post -- cut against many of the GOP proposals that have been put forward over the years that have offered skimpier plans with higher out-of-pocket costs.
“It’s not going to be their plan,” Trump told the Post, referring to the people covered under the current law. “It’ll be another plan. But they’ll be beautifully covered. I don’t want single-payer. What I do want is to be able to take care of people."

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

[Gandalf]

The thing I don't understand is how conservatives in America are so opposed to a single payer health care system. Americans pay twice as much as even the second most expensive country, are the most addicted to pills, have a decreasing life expectancy and yet anything else is deemed Communist or inferior. It makes no sense to me how making huge profits for private insurance companies is deemed the way to go. To me, you cannot on the one hand say that government is tyranny, but on the other hand argue that tyranny by corporations is any better.

[Kirkland Laing]

You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.

You couldn't make this up if you tried.

You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.

So you admit Obamacare is a failure. Thank you

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

Obamacare works as well as the rest of the private system for employed people. Which is, not very well. For the people it covers it's the least worst option as we're about to discover when the GOP attempt a replacement.

#1. Where did I type that Kirkland?

#2. No Obamacare doesn't work as good as the Private system it is decidedly more expensive both in premiums and deductibles.



At the end of the day the young healthy people will have to subsidize the old and sickly. It's the same with good drivers subsidizing bad drivers when it comes to auto insurance, but there comes a time when an Auto Insurance Company can cut it's losses on an insured....no such thing exists in the health insurance world anymore. People living longer and people having fewer children will only make things worse.

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system. Much lower running costs, much more efficient operation and so on. That's just fact.

And yes, the young subsidise the old in every healthcare system. That's why privatising medicare, turning it into a "premium support" system where comprehensive coverage is scrapped and oldies have to buy a private insurance policy, can never work.

If you think it's difficult to get a decent value policy when you're 35 try it when you're 75.


Here's what Trump has to say about his health insurance plans.


“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump told the Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
He added that under his plan, people "can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”
House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) has said lawmakers planned to take a bottom-up approach to replacing Obamacare in piece-meal fashion through the committee process, but according to the Post, Trump said his plan was nearly ready and that he was confident it would pass Congress.
“I think we will get approval. I won’t tell you how, but we will get approval. You see what’s happened in the House in recent weeks,” Trump said, pointing to the kerfuffle when House leaders had to withdraw plans to gut Office of Congressional Ethics after Trump tweeted against the idea.
Even the few details Trump provided about his plan -- “lower numbers, much lower deductibles,” according to the Post -- cut against many of the GOP proposals that have been put forward over the years that have offered skimpier plans with higher out-of-pocket costs.
“It’s not going to be their plan,” Trump told the Post, referring to the people covered under the current law. “It’ll be another plan. But they’ll be beautifully covered. I don’t want single-payer. What I do want is to be able to take care of people."

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

*crickets*

[El Kabong]

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

I responded with "Where did I type that?" to which you replied

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.

That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.

*crickets*

Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed

[Kirkland Laing]

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

I responded with "Where did I type that?" to which you replied

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.

That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.

*crickets*

Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed

I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.

[El Kabong]

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

I responded with "Where did I type that?" to which you replied

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.

That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.

*crickets*

Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed

I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.

You said of Medicare and I quote

You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.

Meaning every other part of our healthcare system does not work......Obamacare would fall under "every other part of our healthcare system" because Obamacare is our current healthcare system AND Obamacare=/= Medicare.

Your turn cunt flaps

[Kirkland Laing]

So you admit the socialised Medicare system is the best part of the US system. Well done Woti.

I responded with "Where did I type that?" to which you replied

But Medicare does work far better than the private/employer pays system.

That is not how debates work Kirkland. When I ask a question I expect an answer, if one is not provided to me and you continue on with your own train of thought regardless of what I have asked then you're just living in your own little bubble Kirk.

*crickets*

Yup, I'm still waiting on a proper response to my initial question *crickets* indeed

I didn't originally admit Obamacare was a failure. And because I didn't directly state that it was you then said "so you admit it's a failure then". I just turned your third grade rhetorical device back on you with the Medicare question.

You said of Medicare and I quote

You already have nanny state healthcare in America for everybody over 65 and it's the only part of your healthcare system that works.

Meaning every other part of our healthcare system does not work......Obamacare would fall under "every other part of our healthcare system" because Obamacare is our current healthcare system AND Obamacare=/= Medicare.

Your turn cunt flaps

The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.

[El Kabong]

The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.

Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?

[Kirkland Laing]

The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.

Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?

No. The Medicare part of your system works very well. The rest of the system works really badly. It's not a failure -- a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year! -- but it's a shit system. It won't ever fail, it can continue indefinitely just being a shit system. It should all be scrapped and a medicare for all system should be set up.

Now, can you answer the questions you've been dodging.

[El Kabong]

The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.

Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?

No. The Medicare part of your system works very well. The rest of the system works really badly. It's not a failure -- a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year! -- but it's a shit system. It won't ever fail, it can continue indefinitely just being a shit system. It should all be scrapped and a medicare for all system should be set up.

Now, can you answer the questions you've been dodging.

People are penalized if they don't sign up so this....

a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year!

isn't something to BE SUPER EXCITED ABOUT!!!


Medicare has worked alright BUT as with all entitlement programs when you have unfettered illegal and even legal immigration there will be a limiting of funds for future patients because those folks either haven't paid into the system for as long as they theoretically could have or they just don't pay into the system at all. Also as the population of the United States increases with age entitlements like Social Security and Medicare will feel the crunch of fewer people paying into a system that more people are making use of....that has always been the problem and will always be the problem with this kind of system.

What can be done to avoid this? Increasing the age of eligibility, increasing taxes, privatizing the system, abolishing the system and starting from scratch, younger generations have a baby boom and put them kids to work.


Obamacare was never meant to be the end game, Single Payer is the end game to which the Republicans/Conservatives/Libertarians would add on the option to upgrade your Insurance through the private sector...I think that will eventually come to pass and whether or not it will be any good is a mystery to me as anything can and will happen

[X]

I don't think we were talking about Obamacare, or medicaid or anything like that, or the pros and cons of it's funding in a normal balanced way.

oh, wait a minute

[Beanz]

Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.

This is all complete bollocks. Typical arrogance from someone who despite having never used the service pretends that they are some kind of authority. You don't have to self diagnose at all, what do you think examinations, scans etc are for? Idiot.The whole point of the NHS is that it is not selective about who gets the best treatment. The idea that doctors have zero training on new rare diseases Is also just complete fabrication from you. You just make stuff up. Why? Seriously what does it matter to you that the NHS is so loved in a country you look down your nose at?

You are 2 pork pies short of a picnic mate. I have direct experience with your NHS. Have you no empathy for the vast numbers of elderly, vulnerable people left on trolleys for hours and hours? Are you that heartless, you nasty little.man? Is the utter lack of diagnosis and the piss-poor lack of treatment and even drugs OK with you? Try and question some of your stubborn and long-held beliefs. Mate the NHS is sinking. You can't even reform it. Take a look at what France, Germany or Holland does. What a beautiful mix of public and private! Your Chancellor is writing checks to this communist-style monstrosity.

So you 'direct experience ' turns out to be, no experience whatsoever and merely being in the UK for three days, once in your life.:-) It seems the Trump habit of just making stuff up and then saying "oh you shouldn't take him literally" is catching.Is it the same with the 350 million pound a week the NHS was promised if we left the expensive EU now turning into actual cuts in expenditure?

[Dark Lord Al]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

[Master]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.