El Feroz.

[Wacko3205]

I agree with Wacko Vargas was rushed too soon.....His camp relied too much on his stle and power before they put him in with the big dogs.....Truth is even at only 28 or so he is a shot fighter....Too many big losses...Well actually just the tow from Tito and DLH are enough he was manhandled by tito and hurt by DLH....Plus his bach problems...The back is something that never is right after surgery....even a successful one.....He has had a decent go at it made good money...He should try something else now or he will end up a stepping stone

Thing about Vargas is that he did very well with some of the shared opponents of Tito & Oscar...that's why I think that they pushed him into the mat with the two of them...I just still think that it was his downfall.

When you say he was manhandled...that was what I think got him the most...they beat him down like a kid that had nothing to offer up in retort & Vargas has a hell of a lot of pride.

I just think that it mentally scarred him.

He still talks about the Oscar fight to this day...talk about a chip on one's shoulder.

[Saddo]

Whats hapenin people..
Question is.. Has anyone heard anything from or regarding fernando vargas recently?
what does he intend to do now?..
here's what i think...
yes he has suffered a few losses... he's a long way from the undefeated champ that fought trinidad on paper... but mentally and skillwise, and perhaps even experiance and maturity wise i feel he may have grown..
I dont feel he's quite done yet.. he's a great fighter... nobody can say he ducked anybody cos he comes to fight man!... he's only lost to truely truely great fighters..
Tito.. lost by tko rnd 12.. but also did knock down trinidad and had a great showing in a fair few rounds and was a great fight..

Oscar tko 11.. i havnt seen to much of this fight.. a few highlights and whatnot.. but its pretty entertainin and i mean come on.. its oscar, you cant be shamed to loose to another great fighter like oscar..

Sugar shane: twice.. Right well on the firts fight i also have a question.. i mean ive seen the crazy swelling and i remember i read about the fight the following morning on hbo!...
the first was tko in 10.. and the scorecards were 86-85 ,86-85, and 85-86
not sure who too! but thats a very close fight...now i know it wasn't a cut stoppage it was a tko?
but should it not have been stopped and gone to the cards?.... what u think?
and in the second .. fair play got caught in the 6th with a perfect left hook and you knew it would last.. but theres no shame in loosing to the sugar man..

so fernando is more then likely still a great fighter, who has just fought and got the raw end of the deal against the truely great fighters of his division..
But then again, the reason why people have perhaps criticized or really havnt minded he lost was his attitude... and his flamboyance..
ive never really been a fan of the ferocious one.. but he is no doubt a great fighter and theres not enough fighters like fernando out there right now..
What you recon.. if he came back.. Keeps it real, keeps it humble.. pics his fights...
He could definately gain some light middlewieght titles.. and perhaps some respect?
Who would you be interested in seeing him fight?
Peace

Very interesting topic. Enjoy a sadclick!

OK allow me to put a stop to this little game right now...

post count reset

[JT Rock]

Whats hapenin people..
Question is.. Has anyone heard anything from or regarding fernando vargas recently?
what does he intend to do now?..
here's what i think...
yes he has suffered a few losses... he's a long way from the undefeated champ that fought trinidad on paper... but mentally and skillwise, and perhaps even experiance and maturity wise i feel he may have grown..
I dont feel he's quite done yet.. he's a great fighter... nobody can say he ducked anybody cos he comes to fight man!... he's only lost to truely truely great fighters..
Tito.. lost by tko rnd 12.. but also did knock down trinidad and had a great showing in a fair few rounds and was a great fight..

Oscar tko 11.. i havnt seen to much of this fight.. a few highlights and whatnot.. but its pretty entertainin and i mean come on.. its oscar, you cant be shamed to loose to another great fighter like oscar..

Sugar shane: twice.. Right well on the firts fight i also have a question.. i mean ive seen the crazy swelling and i remember i read about the fight the following morning on hbo!...
the first was tko in 10.. and the scorecards were 86-85 ,86-85, and 85-86
not sure who too! but thats a very close fight...now i know it wasn't a cut stoppage it was a tko?
but should it not have been stopped and gone to the cards?.... what u think?
and in the second .. fair play got caught in the 6th with a perfect left hook and you knew it would last.. but theres no shame in loosing to the sugar man..

so fernando is more then likely still a great fighter, who has just fought and got the raw end of the deal against the truely great fighters of his division..
But then again, the reason why people have perhaps criticized or really havnt minded he lost was his attitude... and his flamboyance..
ive never really been a fan of the ferocious one.. but he is no doubt a great fighter and theres not enough fighters like fernando out there right now..
What you recon.. if he came back.. Keeps it real, keeps it humble.. pics his fights...
He could definately gain some light middlewieght titles.. and perhaps some respect?
Who would you be interested in seeing him fight?
Peace

Very interesting topic. Enjoy a sadclick!

OK allow me to put a stop to this little game right now...

post count reset

Thats Hilarious.....Even better than a Ban, That Mofo is running on a posting treadmill now, not getting anywere... LOL!!

[Violent Demise]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright? That makes no sense at all. If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed. But he didn't. He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya. Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better. It was not cuz he was rushed. It's idiotic to say so.

[DaxxKahn]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright? That makes no sense at all. If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed. But he didn't. He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya. Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better. It was not cuz he was rushed. It's idiotic to say so.

Quartey was not in the best of modes at the time...Another fighter who has let a loss to DLH change him...Though that fight was closer than DLH/Vargas....some think Quartey won that fight....Winkey Wright lost to Vargas yes but not impressivly....It was just a win...Winkey not the same guy now he was then either twice the fighter today....So it is not idiotic to say so...

[Violent Demise]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright? That makes no sense at all. If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed. But he didn't. He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya. Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better. It was not cuz he was rushed. It's idiotic to say so.

Quartey was not in the best of modes at the time...Another fighter who has let a loss to DLH change him...Though that fight was closer than DLH/Vargas....some think Quartey won that fight....Winkey Wright lost to Vargas yes but not impressivly....It was just a win...Winkey not the same guy now he was then either twice the fighter today....So it is not idiotic to say so...

So you think he was rushed, too?

[Wacko3205]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright? That makes no sense at all. If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed. But he didn't. He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya. Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better. It was not cuz he was rushed. It's idiotic to say so.

It's idiotic to even compare the then Wright that fought Vargas to Oscar or Tito who were prime back when they fought Vargas. Surely even you can see that.

Wright was still sorting all his defensive skills out...Quartey...yeah...I might give you that one...but I aint all that up on Quartey...not like everyone else is...or was.

[Violent Demise]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright?  That makes no sense at all.  If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed.  But he didn't.  He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya.  Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better.  It was not cuz he was rushed.  It's idiotic to say so.

It's idiotic to even compare the then Wright that fought Vargas to Oscar or Tito who were prime back when they fought Vargas. Surely even you can see that.

Wright was still sorting all his defensive skills out...Quartey...yeah...I might give you that one...but I aint all that up on Quartey...not like everyone else is...or was.

Than when would of been a good time for Vargas to fight Trinidad?  Who should he have faught instead?  He was as ready as he was ever going to get.  And his porformance proved it.

[DaxxKahn]

While no one can question Fernando's heart or desire, he was never talented enough to beat the top guys and he never will be. He had very good punching power, but what separates the very good fighters from the great fighters are speed and reflexes. Fernando, even at a young age, never had the reflexes to avoid being hit with big punches (especially left hooks) and he also didn't have the chin to absorb big punches once they landed.

No offense...but I gotta disagree.

I see where you are coming from...but I honestly think that Vargas had what it took...reflexes & all...but he was still a bit of a work in progress.

He had power, chin, reflexes, & speed...but you don't just toss someone like Vargas in with someone like Oscar & Tito that early in his career.

What I think killed Vargas was temperment & maturity...that & the power of Oscar & Tito.

Even though I don't like Vargas...he handled the best of what Campas, Wright (who I think won or atleast drew with), Marquez, & Quartey to only name a few had to offer.

I just think that Vargas was rushed out of the gate a bit too soon.

How the hell can you say he was rushed and it was to early to put him in with Trinidad and De La Hoya when he had already been in with Quartey and Wright? That makes no sense at all. If he would of lost to Wright or Quartey then yeah you can say he was rushed. But he didn't. He was as ready as he was going to get to face Trinidad and De La Hoya. Bottom line is Vargas got beat by 2 fighters who were just better. It was not cuz he was rushed. It's idiotic to say so.

Quartey was not in the best of modes at the time...Another fighter who has let a loss to DLH change him...Though that fight was closer than DLH/Vargas....some think Quartey won that fight....Winkey Wright lost to Vargas yes but not impressivly....It was just a win...Winkey not the same guy now he was then either twice the fighter today....So it is not idiotic to say so...

So you think he was rushed, too?

IMO some people can say rushed but....I think that he was just not read for those guys at that time....Both DLH and Trinidad at the time were on a roll with big fights....I think that also Vargas people relied to much on Vargas power and heart....These two guys are also good boxers who can hit and hit hard...If your main weapon is power and heart you are not going to beat guys who also have the same if not more power...The same as if not more heart and are better skilled.....I also think the fact they happened not to far apart hurt him....Just as Fernando seemed a little past the mental aspect of the DLH loss he suffered another one to Trinidad....Add that to his injurys and you have a ruined fighter

[Hulk]

Vargas at his prime and around it was very exciting and a true warrior. He deserves respect and thanks from boxing fans for two great fights with Oscar and Tito. Lately though, Vargas has just shown up for the pay day against Shane, and he was less than stellar against Castillejo and Ray Joval. I think he will stay retired and I hope he does. IF he does ever fight Mayorga, I am a die hard Mayorga fan, and I really truly believe El Matador has more left in the tank than Vargas, and with his bad back, Vargas would be knocked out early by Mayorga. Though if both desire one more big pay day, one more super fight, one last shot at glory, and one hell of a series of press confernces, then lets get it on!!!!!!