The Reverse Punch

[hardrock]

Think about it.

1. It starts from the hips.
2. It travels from the hip to the target and back again.
3. The other fist is pulled as the punching fist is thrust forward with a twist.

Why did the ancient martial artists decide it was better to start a punch from the hip instead of keeping ones hands up like a Muay Thai boxer or a western boxer?

[Von Milash]

good question. because traditional martial arts are a joke. People who defend them always cite their use as "a deadly weapon." BS. That's an excuse for them being ineffective otherwise. "Oh, but in self defense killing someone is ok." Yet another BS line. I'm sick of hearing it. Show me a kung fu guy or karate guy in the UFC. Again, they'll cite that it's true use is for killing, or whatever. Yeah, sure. Because killing people is something we can do on a daily basis.

[hardrock]

good question. because traditional martial arts are a joke. People who defend them always cite their use as "a deadly weapon." BS. That's an excuse for them being ineffective otherwise. "Oh, but in self defense killing someone is ok." Yet another BS line. I'm sick of hearing it. Show me a kung fu guy or karate guy in the UFC. Again, they'll cite that it's true use is for killing, or whatever. Yeah, sure. Because killing people is something we can do on a daily basis.

Init, if those fighters can fight, then fight and prove it. Excuses can only hold for so long, then its time for action. I'm with you on this one.

[Von Milash]

and how do they know that it's so effective for killing? How many people have they killed? Oh. None. Then how can they objectively state that it's so effective? Shit like that is effective in a dojo with a submissive/passive opponent.

[hardrock]

Some of the hand and kick techniques are not possible to use when you got some guy in front of you who is tense and ready to chuck a punch or grap you in the front.

The main thing is, each technique, esp. hand, is telegraphed, just practise the,
knife hands and you will see what I mean. Strange why did they create such
an interesting and part useful and part useless art (re: karate & TKD?)

[Heavy D]

I think it FEELS like your punching stronger from that stance, because your body is doing a lot of movement. Unfortunately, its all useless movement. Back then, they couldnt exactly measure force as well.

But I think the main thing is that a lot of TMAs focus more on the art aspect than the martial aspect. What the hell good are the animal stances? They just look nice.

As far as the whole "deadly weapons" thing, I actually almost came to blows with this one guy at work (he's a juicer, and suffers from serious roid rage, and I just hate him, so I wouldn't back down from a fight from him no matter what its about), because he was talking about the palm strike to the nose being the easiest way to kill someone. I politely explained that it wasn't true, and the simple physics behind it don't hold up if you know anything about anatomy. You would have to shatter the entire nasal cavity and somehow have it travel INTO the skull, instead of up along the outside, and then pierce the base of the brain where the essential functions are, not the frontal lobe, where higher thought occurs (i.e. non-essential to life, but handy to have if you like talking and whatnot). I said it was possible, but you'd be better off feeding him laxative and waiting for him to have a brain aneurysm. He took huge offense, saying that his karate master or whatever told him it, and it was true. So I asked how many times he had killed someone with it. Or his master had. Or HIS master. Or anybody any of those people had trained. Granted, he didnt take kindly to that, and threatened to try it on me and find out. I took that as my having won the argument :P

[hardrock]

I think it FEELS like your punching stronger from that stance, because your body is doing a lot of movement. Unfortunately, its all useless movement. Back then, they couldnt exactly measure force as well.

But I think the main thing is that a lot of TMAs focus more on the art aspect than the martial aspect. What the hell good are the animal stances? They just look nice.

As far as the whole "deadly weapons" thing, I actually almost came to blows with this one guy at work (he's a juicer, and suffers from serious roid rage, and I just hate him, so I wouldn't back down from a fight from him no matter what its about), because he was talking about the palm strike to the nose being the easiest way to kill someone. I politely explained that it wasn't true, and the simple physics behind it don't hold up if you know anything about anatomy. You would have to shatter the entire nasal cavity and somehow have it travel INTO the skull, instead of up along the outside, and then pierce the base of the brain where the essential functions are, not the frontal lobe, where higher thought occurs (i.e. non-essential to life, but handy to have if you like talking and whatnot). I said it was possible, but you'd be better off feeding him laxative and waiting for him to have a brain aneurysm. He took huge offense, saying that his karate master or whatever told him it, and it was true. So I asked how many times he had killed someone with it. Or his master had. Or HIS master. Or anybody any of those people had trained. Granted, he didnt take kindly to that, and threatened to try it on me and find out. I took that as my having won the argument :P

These Karate masters are full of cabbage.

[Heavy D]

Also, forgot to mention that if it's possible, why in the last 100 yrs of boxing hasn't it happened with an uppercut? Or why in Pankrase (where there is no striking to the face with a closed fist, palm strikes only) has it never happened? Or in MMA, where GnP regularly places people in the necessary position for this to occur?

[cnote111]

Reverse punch is most effective against a non-expecting opponent - you know the ones that stand there and talk a big game...its a surprise punch IMO - nothing more, unless you want to look fancy against a weak opponent...

[JT Rock]

Reverse punch is most effective against a non-expecting opponent - you know the ones that stand there and talk a big game...its a surprise punch IMO - nothing more, unless you want to look fancy against a weak opponent...

Yea I would love someone to square up to be and try that weak telagraphed punch, think about the possibilities for a bicep destruction and a throw(perfect opportunity for Dumog) or counterpunching opportunites..

[cnote111]

Reverse punch is most effective against a non-expecting opponent - you know the ones that stand there and talk a big game...its a surprise punch IMO - nothing more, unless you want to look fancy against a weak opponent...

Yea I would love someone to square up to be and try that weak telagraphed punch, think about the possibilities for a bicep destruction and a throw(perfect opportunity for Dumog) or counterpunching opportunites..

The options seem endless indeed...

[JT Rock]

Reverse punch is most effective against a non-expecting opponent - you know the ones that stand there and talk a big game...its a surprise punch IMO - nothing more, unless you want to look fancy against a weak opponent...

Yea I would love someone to square up to be and try that weak telagraphed punch, think about the possibilities for a bicep destruction and a throw(perfect opportunity for Dumog) or counterpunching opportunites..

The options seem endless indeed...

I look at it this way, my instructor gave us in illustration about sparring and drills, he said something to the effect of " if someone whipped a baseball at him he would probably turn his body out of the way and shield himself, were a ballplayer would catch it without even blinking or looking stressed since thats what baseball players do they throw the ball they catch the ball it becomes 2nd nature muscles get trained to react just like reflexes do since its part of the culture, same as martialarts we train, spar, isolate drill, fight each other in a controlled manner so when a punch is thrown at you you can react naturally for the above reasons as a ballplayer"

I mean when I am on and training 3 nights a week I would tell my friends to try to punch me in the face fast and hard and when the punch came I was able to react calmly whether I moved my head, intercepted the fist mimicked a nerve destruction etc... I been slacking lately cause of work and stuff so I couldnt do that now but I like to think I have more skill and confidence than a good majority of the people walking the streets..

[Von Milash]

Also, forgot to mention that if it's possible, why in the last 100 yrs of boxing hasn't it happened with an uppercut? Or why in Pankrase (where there is no striking to the face with a closed fist, palm strikes only) has it never happened? Or in MMA, where GnP regularly places people in the necessary position for this to occur?

have you ever noticed that it doesn't matter which martial art it is, a real combative encounter always, ALWAYS turns into something that looks like a crude boxing match with a few kicks interspersed. This is why I'm adamant about the idea that a TOP boxer would still beat the top mma guys, with the exception of a few, which are good boxers in their on right. MMA guys argue the contrary, but we always seem to see medicre boxers get beat by the top mma guys.

[aries]

have you ever noticed that it doesn't matter which martial art it is, a real combative encounter always, ALWAYS turns into something that looks like a crude boxing match with a few kicks interspersed. This is why I'm adamant about the idea that a TOP boxer would still beat the top mma guys, with the exception of a few, which are good boxers in their on right. MMA guys argue the contrary, but we always seem to see medicre boxers get beat by the top mma guys.

No not always, definitely not always. IT often goes to the clinch and then the ground.

So even a TOP boxer who doesn't have any ground game or take down defence will get taken down and submitted or slammed. OR they'll be clinched and knee'd to pieces or they'll leg kicked to pieces from range.

We'll probably not see a top boxer versus MMA'er for a while yet. Not until the money improves.

[Von Milash]

see, we keep hearing that very thing. If an mma guy tried to come in, which would HAVE TO be behind the jab, they'd get fookin destroyed. Like I said, we only ever see MEDIOCRE boxers in mma. If Roy Jones Jr had fought someone of his weight, he'd kill them.

I once said something similar on another site, but refering to Jermaine Taylor and Matt Hughes. The mma proponent come back with, "you're compaing jermaine taylor to a DIVISION 1 ALL AMERICAN? Are you CRAZY?" Well, where do mma guys come off comparing COLLEGIATE sports to an international boxing federation? It would be like comparing Florida Gotors football to the NFL. No contest.