Barrera vs. Marquez - Disgrace!!!

[Gandalf]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

IMO if the point deduction wasnt made then it was an equal round and given that situation perhaps the fight may have followed a different tangent. No way Barrera got a fair deal from that fight....that 7th was great, but exceedingly fucked up!

[SweetPea]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

I know this is a discussion betwen you two but seriously, what are the rules?

The rule I'm arguing is that a fighter doesn't automatically win a round 10-8 if he knocks his opponent down. Generally the fighter who scores the knockdown does get 10-8, because he usually dominates the round overall, in addition to getting the knockdown.
But in this case, Marquez was clearly winning the round. While Barrera's knockdown should certainly count for more than any of Marquez's single punches, the one big punch Barrera threw doesn't outweigh all of the work Marquez did over the first 2:55.

I think you could have scored the round two ways (and this is not factoring in the point deduction for the foul)....
I would have scored the round even. In other words, Marquez won the round, but Marquez loses a point for going down, which evens it out.
Or, it would also be understandable to say Barrera evened out the round with the big punch, with the knockdown taking a point from Marquez, so Barrera would win the round 10-9 (10-10, minus a point for Marquez for going down).
Barrera didn't deserve a 10-8 round.

[Gandalf]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

I know this is a discussion betwen you two but seriously, what are the rules?

The rule I'm arguing is that a fighter doesn't automatically win a round 10-8 if he knocks his opponent down. Generally the fighter who scores the knockdown does get 10-8, because he usually dominates the round overall, in addition to getting the knockdown.
But in this case, Marquez was clearly winning the round. While Barrera's knockdown should certainly count for more than any of Marquez's single punches, the one big punch Barrera threw doesn't outweigh all of the work Marquez did over the first 2:55.

I think you could have scored the round two ways (and this is not factoring in the point deduction for the foul)....
I would have scored the round even. In other words, Marquez won the round, but Marquez loses a point for going down, which evens it out.
Or, it would also be understandable to say Barrera evened out the round with the big punch, with the knockdown taking a point from Marquez, so Barrera would win the round 10-9 (10-10, minus a point for Marquez for going down).
Barrera didn't deserve a 10-8 round.

That is how I would score it too...I Wouldnt make it 10-8 Barerra. No way. He was losing the round and clearly so.....

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Theres a slight flaw there... Or maybe im mising something
i mean what if it was a 10-10 round and Barrera scored a knock down? would it be a 10-9 round or a 10-8 round?

[GAME]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

[Gandalf]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

[diamonddavestafford]

Are there any other people here who feel MAB shut JMM out through 6 rds?

He completely shut Marquez out through the first six. Marquez won six rounds AT THE MOST and that is being generous. This fight's scoring was a joke and the boxing commission should be ashamed of itself. I am tired of seeing such lopsided bullshit scoring. Barrera won the fight, 115-114 (i counted the knockdown and scored the 7th 9/9 even after the point deduction for the foul).

[GAME]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

[Gandalf]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

A large number of landed shots that show hurt will even out a knockdown. 1 knockdown is equal to a dominated round. This is the way I score my fights.

I dont know why this is such an issue for you... does Barrera need these extra points to justify his win on your scorecard?!

It sure as hell doesnt play a part on mine!

[SweetPea]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

If I'm remembering the round correctly, Barrera was badly wobbled by a straight right hand earlier in the round. It's not like Marquez spent the first 2:55 jabbing and winning a low-action round. He had Barrera hurt and in trouble for a sizable part of the round. Marquez was on his way to winning the round big, which made the knockdown so much more dramatic, because it came out of nowhere.

[GAME]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

A large number of landed shots that show hurt will even out a knockdown. 1 knockdown is equal to a dominated round. This is the way I score my fights.

I dont know why this is such an issue for you... does Barrera need these extra points to justify his win on your scorecard?!

It sure as hell doesnt play a part on mine!

What was your scorecard Miles . I had Barrera up by 1 but if the ref did his job it would have been wider for Barrera

Sweet Pea - Marquez was getting over anxious against Barrera trying to finish it and I reckon he was still shaking off the effects of that punch 5 mins later

[SweetPea]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

A large number of landed shots that show hurt will even out a knockdown. 1 knockdown is equal to a dominated round. This is the way I score my fights.

I dont know why this is such an issue for you... does Barrera need these extra points to justify his win on your scorecard?!

It sure as hell doesnt play a part on mine!

What was your scorecard Miles . I had Barrera up by 1 but if the ref did his job it would have been wider for Barrera

Sweet Pea - Marquez was getting over anxious against Barrera trying to finish it and I reckon he was still shaking off the effects of that punch 5 mins later

Ok.... but that doesn't change the fact that Marquez dominated the first 2:55 of the round.

[Sugar_Shaw]

I scored the fight 114-114

[Gandalf]

I repeat, Pea, when did being convincing in a round equal getting knocked down in a round?

When did a 10-8 round equal clearly losing the first 2:55 before landing one good shot in the final seconds?

He wasnt clearly beating Barrera in the 1st 2.55 of teh round though . Halfway through teh round he got through with his best shots which failed to drop Barrera . He gave it everything he had before falling over . 10-8 ? No way.

I can't tell what you're trying to say here. No way for who? What do you think the score should have been (assuming no point deduction was made for the foul)?

10-8 to Barrera or atleast 10-9 Barrera at the very worst . If Marquez had dominated the entire round apart from the knockdown then I woulda said 10-9 but he didnt

This is where I will disagree with you GAME, I like what you say usually, but Barrera took several flush power shots there and was clearly rocked and not responding with equal shots at all. That final punch was the peach though!!!

The knockdown does only equal out the tough, tough time he had for the previous 80 seconds....a squared round (minus any talk of the deducted point)...

Nah a knockdown means more than that otherwise Barrera could have just gone down and the round would have been scored the same ? Meaning there was no point of him staying on his feet if he was guna be punished just as badly on the cards regardless . A knockdown means more than landing shots and failing to budge the other guy .

A large number of landed shots that show hurt will even out a knockdown. 1 knockdown is equal to a dominated round. This is the way I score my fights.

I dont know why this is such an issue for you... does Barrera need these extra points to justify his win on your scorecard?!

It sure as hell doesnt play a part on mine!

What was your scorecard Miles . I had Barrera up by 1 but if the ref did his job it would have been wider for Barrera

Sweet Pea - Marquez was getting over anxious against Barrera trying to finish it and I reckon he was still shaking off the effects of that punch 5 mins later

Like you I have Barrera 1 point up, but I could understand a draw being called or it going to Marquez by a single point. A 7th round with a correctly called knock down would have made a close fight somewhat clearer for me...

[The Shadow]

Please, Folks: Let this thread come to an end. All opinions are welcome, but what's done is done. After watching the fight a second time, I surely can't take anything away from Marquez. He pushed throughout many of the rounds - it seems that had a drastic affect on the judges' scoring. Although I still have deep-seated dislike for their ultimate scores, I would be remissed as a fight fan that I now think the fight could have gone either way. I think the best outcome would have been a draw, or one fighter conceivably losing by a 115-114 in the final tally.
CC to all for passionately advocating their respective cases without resorting to acting childish - Hell, I'm often guilty of falling predator to a nonsensical rant every now then. But it's all done in good fun, although some of us go over the 'line' sometimes...but it's all good folks.
Really good fight and the possibility of a rematch. M.A.B. has been in so many wars and given the boxing community some of the best boxing experiences of our respective lifetimes.
To be honest, I was expecting the M.A.B. that totally schooled and outclassed Rocky Juarez in their rematch. Unfortunately, that M.A.B. didn't have the same game last Saturday. You got to give the man Holyfield status credit, you can knock the man down, but he's sure to conjure the courage and intestinal fortitude to temporarily turn the clocks back for a moment. Sounds odd that I'm commenting on a 33 year-old; cats only got a 1 year on me. But M.A.B. has the Holyfield/Cotoure unwavering spirit of competition.
In the end, win, lose or draw, that's what the most memorable part is all about. Hats off to them all.