How highly do you rate Sugar Shane at his prime??

[smashcrusher]

I don't think he would be a match for Floyd@147,the speed seems to have gone and so have the combos,they are not anywhere near as frequent and he sould easily KO Zab. The Tszyu fight would be awesome,I think Kostya could win,but one question,how good was Shane's chin

IMO KT is a boxers worst nightmare...and he is the grim reaper for any southpaw. You give him time to think then your losing the fight and if your a southpaw...learn to fight right handed coz you know your getting hit with that right all night and not many can last that for half a fight let alone 12 rounds.

Sorry Snakey, but this would be Kostya Tzsyu after fighting Shane at 140:

http://users.adelphia.net/~cpaladino...s/toe_tag2.jpg

Dont think so, please explain to me why mosely and dela hoya didnt even try to fight tszyu at 140? They were the best but KT was the best of that division yet neither of them wanted to touch him. Could it be that he posed too much of a threat for too little money? I would say so.

Um, Snakey, When Oscar was at 140 Kostya was busy getting knocked the F#@k out by Vince Phillips. Now why again should Oscar or Shane push for a fight with a boxer who just got taken behind the woodshed?

[El Gamo]

Oh so,KT, loses to Phillips maeans he is not worthy of fighting I think not. How long did Tszyu stay unbeaten after that? Maybe they should push for a fight to prove that they are the best? There is too much emphasis on making the big money fights rather than fighting the best and proving you are the best.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Oh so,KT, loses to Phillips maeans he is not worthy of fighting I think not. How long did Tszyu stay unbeaten after that? Maybe they should push for a fight to prove that they are the best? There is too much emphasis on making the big money fights rather than fighting the best and proving you are the best.

Didn't mean he wasn't worthy, but by the time KT built his stock back up they'd moved on to 147...KT's loss not their's...

[smashcrusher]

Oh so,KT, loses to Phillips maeans he is not worthy of fighting I think not. How long did Tszyu stay unbeaten after that? Maybe they should push for a fight to prove that they are the best? There is too much emphasis on making the big money fights rather than fighting the best and proving you are the best.

Why are you bringing up what happened after the knockout as an example? Oscar and Shane in '97 weren't looking at what Kostya did from '98--05 because they didn't have crystal balls, they were looking at him at that point. Tell me this, before the Phillips fiasco (and let's not say he just lost, he got KTFO) what exactly had Kostya done to prove he was one of the best fighters in the world? What world beater did he beat then? For the same reason Acelino Freitas fell off the map for so long after his loss to Corrales, so too did Kostya, and you can't sit there for a second and say he was automatically deserving of a shot against Oscar or Shane, AT THAT TIME.

[El Gamo]

eRRRR,the same reason Zab got a shot at Floyd after losing to Baldomir,same reason Morales fought Pacman despite losing to Raheem,just because someone loses once,it's all over for him? Oh...so as soon as Tszyu lost,he was automatically unworthy of a shot at Oscar and Shane? Oh,so that stopped them from coming back to 140 and fighting him? Tszyu lost to Phillips in 97,who had Mosley beaten up until that point? It's how he beat them that he got his recognition,same with Tszyu and up until 97,Oscar had faded legends on his record(Whitaker Camacho etc)

[smashcrusher]

eRRRR,the same reason Zab got a shot at Floyd after losing to Baldomir,same reason Morales fought Pacman despite losing to Raheem,just because someone loses once,it's all over for him? Oh...so as soon as Tszyu lost,he was automatically unworthy of a shot at Oscar and Shane? Oh,so that stopped them from coming back to 140 and fighting him? Tszyu lost to Phillips in 97,who had Mosley beaten up until that point? It's how he beat them that he got his recognition,same with Tszyu and up until 97,Oscar had faded legends on his record(Whitaker Camacho etc)

Game, the reason Zab got a shot at Floyd and Morales got a shot at Pacman is because there was a huge public demand to see those fights. There was absolutely no public demand whatsoever to see Kostya get it on with Oscar in '97 and you know that and saying anything different would just be a lie. And you don't honestly believe Oscar was viewed as just a bum beater back then do you? He had already become the biggest attraction outside the heavyweight division. Trying to argue that Kostya deserved a shot at Oscar right after his KO loss to Vince Phillips is a moot point.

[El Gamo]

I'm not saying he should have got a shot STRAIGHT after,merely stating that it's strange Oscar and Mosley missed out on fighting him. Also,you answered your own question,if Oscar was the biggest attraction,then fighting Tszyu would have made him millions,regardless of Tszyu having lost and there being no interest,heck if you put an 80 year old woman in the ring with Oscar,it would still be PPV! I was just responding to your point about who Kostya had beaten before Phllips,the same principle applied to Mosley and De La Hoya.

[smashcrusher]

I see what you're saying but Oscar was more concerned about being the greatest fighter of all time, and the man was fighting who people viewed as the best at that time. He fought Chavez when he was on top at 140, Whitaker when he was on top at 147, Ike and Tito afterwards and so on and so forth. He could have made money fighting Kostya sure, but he wanted to build his legacy and at the time Kostya just wasn't that big.

[El Gamo]

Fair enough and CC,you made your points well. However,I disagree on Chavez being on top,at that stage,he was merely a shadow of himself and that Whitaker fight was a robbery!!! Oscar is a legend though,no doubt about that.

[TICH]

thanks jonesjr for the advice but the problem is i cant find the mosley vs de la hoya fight. if anyone has the fight or the link it will be appreciated thanks.

[BrooklyniteQueen]

Shane would beat Tszyu at 140.

[El Gamo]

Shane would beat Tszyu at 140.

What makes you so confident?

[BrooklyniteQueen]

Shane would have broken Tszyu down to the body and not given Tszyu space to use his right hand, he wouldn't give Tszyu room to extend nor would he give ground to Tszyu and would have broken Tszyu down methodically while one shot from Tszyu wouldn't do it, or more or less wouldn't hit a very good defensively Shane. And Shane had a killer left hook to the body.

[El Gamo]

Agreed that Mosley at his peak had some the best body work I've ever seen however,Tszyu would catch him more than once and also,Tszyu would catch him coming in for sure and I'm certain Tszyu would land more than enough shots to hurt Mosley.

[JonesJrMayweather]

thanks jonesjr for the advice but the problem is i cant find the mosley vs de la hoya fight. if anyone has the fight or the link it will be appreciated thanks.

here's Mosely's first title shot at lightweight and the only fight that went the distance while he was down there...its against phillip holiday

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=66PSAIFK