Judah at 140... How would he do now?

[Preme]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I'v thought for a long time that a new trainer might be of help to him too, i'm pretty sure he has always been told what to do how to train how ot fight how to think since for ever coming form a fighting family as he has... a new face, someone who can teach him to think for him self and use his head could really be what he needs... could be to late for him, but i dunno...

---

Ice judah got up a few seconds to early thats it, if he had got an 8 cound and told to put his gloves up and walk forward i seen no reason why he would not of been able to do it... he didn't even get that chance to, hence premature...

[Mar]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

[ICB]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I'v thought for a long time that a new trainer might be of help to him too, i'm pretty sure he has always been told what to do how to train how ot fight how to think since for ever coming form a fighting family as he has... a new face, someone who can teach him to think for him self and use his head could really be what he needs... could be to late for him, but i dunno...

---

Ice judah got up a few seconds to early thats it, if he had got an 8 cound and told to put his gloves up and walk forward i seen no reason why he would not of been able to do it... he didn't even get that chance to, hence premature...

Yes with hindsight but if i was the ref i would of stopped it aswell if i see a boxer doing breakdancing it wouldn't of made any difference Tszyu would of stopped him either way.

[ICB]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

Well i wouldn't go that far Mayweather changed his tactics and then he started to beat Judah people seem to think if this Judah turns up he will beat anyone ect will the real Zab Judah please stand up

[OumaFan]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

Well i wouldn't go that far Mayweather changed his tactics and then he started to beat Judah people seem to think if this Judah turns up he will beat anyone ect will the real Zab Judah please stand up

CC. That and its not like Judah doesn't have a habit of fading after the first 4-6 rounds anyway. The Spinks fights are really the only times I've seen Zab finish strong. And Mayweather's just a different level of fighter.

Its the right move though, 147's too deep, Zab will always get second chances and opportunities based on his potential but he hasn't shown any ability to beat the top guys there and its just too deep.

At 140, and I'm not high on Judah whatsoever, how many guys are there that he can't beat, outside of Hatton. He's all wrong for Malignaggi IMO, Vivian's a headcase, guys like Holt are unproven. Torres isn't that great.

[ICB]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

Well i wouldn't go that far Mayweather changed his tactics and then he started to beat Judah people seem to think if this Judah turns up he will beat anyone ect will the real Zab Judah please stand up

CC. That and its not like Judah doesn't have a habit of fading after the first 4-6 rounds anyway. The Spinks fights are really the only times I've seen Zab finish strong. And Mayweather's just a different level of fighter.

Its the right move though, 147's too deep, Zab will always get second chances and opportunities based on his potential but he hasn't shown any ability to beat the top guys there and its just too deep.

At 140, and I'm not high on Judah whatsoever, how many guys are there that he can't beat, outside of Hatton. He's all wrong for Malignaggi IMO, Vivian's a headcase, guys like Holt are unproven. Torres isn't that great.

back i think Judah would do well at 140 if he ever did fight Hatton he would give him few problems due to Hatton always struggling with southpaws he even struggled against southpaws as an amateur but Hatton would eventually break him down with relentless pressure and Judah would just crack under the pressure but everyone else at 140 ?? well i think he could probably beat most people at 140 i wonder if Witter fancies the job of revenging his only loss to Judah.

[DaxxKahn]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

Well i wouldn't go that far Mayweather changed his tactics and then he started to beat Judah people seem to think if this Judah turns up he will beat anyone ect will the real Zab Judah please stand up

Agreed Floyd did adapt and thenb what happened.....Judah instaed of adjusting he fell apart....

My point is Judah has the ability to adjust as well but instead he falls apart??.....

Mental make up is his problem not ability...

As far as skill goes Judah has everything he is the complete package...

Speed,,Slick,,,southpaw,,,better chin then given credit for...good foot work,,,good defense,,,,,,It is just when things are not going his way he seems to just lose it,,,

[OumaFan]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I totally agree..there is a judah in there somewhere that could've beat mayweather that night then there's the judah that most people associate him with these days an unfocused kosta tszyu dancin ball smashin out of control brawler.

Well i wouldn't go that far Mayweather changed his tactics and then he started to beat Judah people seem to think if this Judah turns up he will beat anyone ect will the real Zab Judah please stand up

Agreed Floyd did adapt and thenb what happened.....Judah instaed of adjusting he fell apart....

My point is Judah has the ability to adjust as well but instead he falls apart??.....

Mental make up is his problem not ability...

As far as skill goes Judah has everything he is the complete package...

Speed,,Slick,,,southpaw,,,better chin then given credit for...good foot work,,,good defense,,,,,,It is just when things are not going his way he seems to just lose it,,,

I agree he doesn't have the greatest mental makeup but I think its odd how relatively easy it is to hit Judah considering how quick and agile he is. I don't know how the whole "Pernell with power" thing started but its clear he's not even on the same planet defensively as guys like Pernell and Floyd. He backs straight up too much, too easy to hit with the right hand, doesn't really have any infighting skills on defense. I just don't think he's as slick as people make him out to be. He's a great athlete with great speed and good power. I do think his chin is a bit underrated but at the same time I think his defensive skills are overrated.

[DaxxKahn]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I'v thought for a long time that a new trainer might be of help to him too, i'm pretty sure he has always been told what to do how to train how ot fight how to think since for ever coming form a fighting family as he has... a new face, someone who can teach him to think for him self and use his head could really be what he needs... could be to late for him, but i dunno...

---

Ice judah got up a few seconds to early thats it, if he had got an 8 cound and told to put his gloves up and walk forward i seen no reason why he would not of been able to do it... he didn't even get that chance to, hence premature...

CC#382 on a new trainer....I have always been against family training...Though you have complete success stories here and there...EG Mosleys,,Doniares ( though it is early yet) Calzaghes to name a few,,,,more then not they fail in the end...

Problem is that it is hard for a father to see the true faults in his child...also if the career is going bad due to bad training the father does not want to admit he may be at fault due to not knowing or doing something right....Hard to admit because one he does not want to say he messed up in his son's career also no trainer wants to admit they may need outside advice...

[Majesty]

http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?se...20Welterweight

Above is the who's who list at 140.

Now im not exactly an expert on Judah but something tells me that 147 was never quite right for him. He only went up cause Tzsyu was still at 140 and still perceived at dangerous.

My questions are could Zab still make 140 and if so, do you think he'd have the ability to reign with any kind of dominance.

I ask this cause at 147 Juda is pretty much regarded as 'the guy you beat to know your can compete'. Everyone just seems too big or too good for Juda these days. He may be wise to admit defeat and drop down a division.

Waddya guys think?

Judah tried to get a rematch with Kosta Tszyu, but Kosta didn't want it. Judah then went up to 147 and shortly thereafter, he unified the welterweight division and was linear welterweight champion.

As far as 140.................


Judah would absolutely dominate that division, but the problem with that is that there isn't that many big name opponents at 140 outside of Hatton (Hatton would only fight in England at the time and Judah wasn't going there) so there isn't too much money to be made (that's why Judah moved up in the 1st place)

Firstly because there was no need for a rematch secondly i remember Judah saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch ??

no need for one? whatever judah got caught, this is boxing people get caught S*** happens, rematch proves that it wasnt a fluke hit, that and the fact that stoppage was bullshit and premature, another jay nady moment in boxing.

What ?? Tszyu was on his way to winning 2nd round he hit Judah once with a right hand then hit him again its not a fluke punch and it wasn't premature stoppage either i remember Judah opening his big mouth saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch but because Tszyu won he wanted one sounds like a hypocrite to me i can't believe you think its a fluke hit Tszyu timed him end of that wasn't a fluke hit he hit him twice Judah won one round and was on his way to losing 2nd round and thats a fluke hit because Judah had one good round ?? people crack me up sometime.

I love the way people listen to boxers when it stuis them to hold somethign against the... it wasn't a fluke the punch landed it was a good punch, but this is boxing a sport where evrythign can change with one panuch, but more often than not that match changing punch doesn't land... we have seen good fighters get stopped early, and shockinly before and come back and won rematches or gone on to do great things...

And that stoppage was as premature as they come

I love the way people listen to boxers when it stuis them to hold somethign against

No im not doing that at all but he come out with that and he seemed pretty sure of himself he shouldn't of opened his big mouth then nor should he have done stupid taunting and he might of done a little better and ref had no choice Judah was stumbling and Judah done silly dance without hindsight if you see a guy that couldn't stand up and done a stupid dance im pretty sure you would stop it aswell.

You act like he's the only one who's done it.


Don't other boxers say "If this person beats me, I'm retiring" And then get beat and not retire? Trash talking is part of the sport and trash talking is trash talking. And I strongly doubt if Judah won and the money was big enough he'd say no to a major payday.

Casamayor said he would never give Corrales a rematch but he still did.

there's been worse in the sport of boxing if we're gonna hold boxers so accountable by their words then why are there even press conferences Or fight hypes


And its very big to hype the fight saying something like "No rematch this is the only time you'll see it'

That gets more views doesn't it?

And either way would you rather have a boxer say something like "After I win this match I'll never fight him again....until the money's right then I'll will"

Or a boxer say "I'm gonna knock him out but in actuality I plan on boxing the whole fight and not knocking him out at all, he's a nice guy with a good family I'll do as little damage while taking as little punishment as possible"

The pay per view numbers for nice guys on ice...

Just saying man

[Preme]

Putting aside all the what if....when it comes to making weight.....

I will say this about Zab....Same thing I always say.....

If he can hold it together mentaly he has the ability to beat anyone.....140 might be a good spot for him assuming he can make weight...It might be a mental boost!!!!.....He may feel stronger and that is a big help....Mind is as important as the body

I'v thought for a long time that a new trainer might be of help to him too, i'm pretty sure he has always been told what to do how to train how ot fight how to think since for ever coming form a fighting family as he has... a new face, someone who can teach him to think for him self and use his head could really be what he needs... could be to late for him, but i dunno...

---

Ice judah got up a few seconds to early thats it, if he had got an 8 cound and told to put his gloves up and walk forward i seen no reason why he would not of been able to do it... he didn't even get that chance to, hence premature...

CC#382 on a new trainer....I have always been against family training...Though you have complete success stories here and there...EG Mosleys,,Doniares ( though it is early yet) Calzaghes to name a few,,,,more then not they fail in the end...

Problem is that it is hard for a father to see the true faults in his child...also if the career is going bad due to bad training the father does not want to admit he may be at fault due to not knowing or doing something right....Hard to admit because one he does not want to say he messed up in his son's career also no trainer wants to admit they may need outside advice...

back

thought there was talk of phernell training him at some point tho? long ago thought sum1 made a thread?

[toogood4u]

jim boogie, all i kno is that judah is one of my favorite fighters as of today.
i've watched him in his prime and i see alot of good things
as of the 147 i think that he would not be as good as he can be in 140

If judah is able to rock cotto 5 times hes able to fighter any fighters. even thoughh e lost he only lost because he doesnt throw enough punches after the early rounds, its something i've seen him do to many times and it led to a lost. PLUS he got hit in the nuts atleast 4 times...LOL

in 140 i believe that he would be able to fight any1. i think that judah should go for the respect in boxing right now rather than the money, he needs it
so i think he should go down, but if he does stay up will just see another good performance in the early rounds and a disappointing mid and late rounds ( this only happens wen he faces top contenders)

[ICB]

http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?se...20Welterweight

Above is the who's who list at 140.

Now im not exactly an expert on Judah but something tells me that 147 was never quite right for him. He only went up cause Tzsyu was still at 140 and still perceived at dangerous.

My questions are could Zab still make 140 and if so, do you think he'd have the ability to reign with any kind of dominance.

I ask this cause at 147 Juda is pretty much regarded as 'the guy you beat to know your can compete'. Everyone just seems too big or too good for Juda these days. He may be wise to admit defeat and drop down a division.

Waddya guys think?

Judah tried to get a rematch with Kosta Tszyu, but Kosta didn't want it. Judah then went up to 147 and shortly thereafter, he unified the welterweight division and was linear welterweight champion.

As far as 140.................


Judah would absolutely dominate that division, but the problem with that is that there isn't that many big name opponents at 140 outside of Hatton (Hatton would only fight in England at the time and Judah wasn't going there) so there isn't too much money to be made (that's why Judah moved up in the 1st place)

Firstly because there was no need for a rematch secondly i remember Judah saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch ??

no need for one? whatever judah got caught, this is boxing people get caught S*** happens, rematch proves that it wasnt a fluke hit, that and the fact that stoppage was bullshit and premature, another jay nady moment in boxing.

What ?? Tszyu was on his way to winning 2nd round he hit Judah once with a right hand then hit him again its not a fluke punch and it wasn't premature stoppage either i remember Judah opening his big mouth saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch but because Tszyu won he wanted one sounds like a hypocrite to me i can't believe you think its a fluke hit Tszyu timed him end of that wasn't a fluke hit he hit him twice Judah won one round and was on his way to losing 2nd round and thats a fluke hit because Judah had one good round ?? people crack me up sometime.

I love the way people listen to boxers when it stuis them to hold somethign against the... it wasn't a fluke the punch landed it was a good punch, but this is boxing a sport where evrythign can change with one panuch, but more often than not that match changing punch doesn't land... we have seen good fighters get stopped early, and shockinly before and come back and won rematches or gone on to do great things...

And that stoppage was as premature as they come

I love the way people listen to boxers when it stuis them to hold somethign against

No im not doing that at all but he come out with that and he seemed pretty sure of himself he shouldn't of opened his big mouth then nor should he have done stupid taunting and he might of done a little better and ref had no choice Judah was stumbling and Judah done silly dance without hindsight if you see a guy that couldn't stand up and done a stupid dance im pretty sure you would stop it aswell.

You act like he's the only one who's done it.


Don't other boxers say "If this person beats me, I'm retiring" And then get beat and not retire? Trash talking is part of the sport and trash talking is trash talking. And I strongly doubt if Judah won and the money was big enough he'd say no to a major payday.

Casamayor said he would never give Corrales a rematch but he still did.

there's been worse in the sport of boxing if we're gonna hold boxers so accountable by their words then why are there even press conferences Or fight hypes


And its very big to hype the fight saying something like "No rematch this is the only time you'll see it'

That gets more views doesn't it?

And either way would you rather have a boxer say something like "After I win this match I'll never fight him again....until the money's right then I'll will"

Or a boxer say "I'm gonna knock him out but in actuality I plan on boxing the whole fight and not knocking him out at all, he's a nice guy with a good family I'll do as little damage while taking as little punishment as possible"

The pay per view numbers for nice guys on ice...

Just saying man

I understand what your saying man but Kostya beat Judah convincing and there was no need for a rematch Judah did say that and he said it as he believed it and got beat convincing end of but i can understand what your saying but was there really any public demand for rematch or ect ?? Judah could have done nothing different in the rematch it would of lasted longer but Judah would have lost again ever heard old saying the way to beat speed is timing ?? well Tszyu had excellent timing and just has right style to beat Judah he did not earn a rematch he didn't put up a good enough display and there was no controversy or ect to be worth a rematch he had one good round thats it Tszyu was on his way to winning 2nd round and he hit Judah twice with right hands there was no luck like people are trying to say it was perfect shot and was set up excellent.


Hell Tony Tubbs had great first round against Tyson and was koed in 2nd round did he deserve a rematch ?? its samething Judah did not deserve a rematch but i can understand your point.

[yoitsdan]

I've always said Zab lacks physical strength at 147 and he should have stuck at 140lbs to begin with if he wants to be the dominant force he was back in 02/03

[Snakey]

http://www.boxrec.com/ratings.php?se...20Welterweight

Above is the who's who list at 140.

Now im not exactly an expert on Judah but something tells me that 147 was never quite right for him. He only went up cause Tzsyu was still at 140 and still perceived at dangerous.

My questions are could Zab still make 140 and if so, do you think he'd have the ability to reign with any kind of dominance.

I ask this cause at 147 Juda is pretty much regarded as 'the guy you beat to know your can compete'. Everyone just seems too big or too good for Juda these days. He may be wise to admit defeat and drop down a division.

Waddya guys think?

Judah tried to get a rematch with Kosta Tszyu, but Kosta didn't want it. Judah then went up to 147 and shortly thereafter, he unified the welterweight division and was linear welterweight champion.

As far as 140.................


Judah would absolutely dominate that division, but the problem with that is that there isn't that many big name opponents at 140 outside of Hatton (Hatton would only fight in England at the time and Judah wasn't going there) so there isn't too much money to be made (that's why Judah moved up in the 1st place)

Firstly because there was no need for a rematch secondly i remember Judah saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch ??

no need for one? whatever judah got caught, this is boxing people get caught S*** happens, rematch proves that it wasnt a fluke hit, that and the fact that stoppage was bullshit and premature, another jay nady moment in boxing.

What ?? Tszyu was on his way to winning 2nd round he hit Judah once with a right hand then hit him again its not a fluke punch and it wasn't premature stoppage either i remember Judah opening his big mouth saying if he won there wouldn't be a rematch but because Tszyu won he wanted one sounds like a hypocrite to me i can't believe you think its a fluke hit Tszyu timed him end of that wasn't a fluke hit he hit him twice Judah won one round and was on his way to losing 2nd round and thats a fluke hit because Judah had one good round ?? people crack me up sometime.

I love the way people listen to boxers when it stuis them to hold somethign against the... it wasn't a fluke the punch landed it was a good punch, but this is boxing a sport where evrythign can change with one panuch, but more often than not that match changing punch doesn't land... we have seen good fighters get stopped early, and shockinly before and come back and won rematches or gone on to do great things...

And that stoppage was as premature as they come

Dude, i have seen zab get his ass beat by cotto, pbf and fuckin baldomir. Now come on, if baldomir could shake judahs legs all night long, than what do you think kostya would do if the fight went longer? Kostya just would of broken him down if the fight went longer. He would of stopped him, it just would be a case of a different round. And yes i remember zab did say there wouldnt be a rematch, so the cocky son of a bitch didnt get one nor did he deserve one after the way he acted.