Still waiting for your reply Rain cmon man it's the third round?
You coming out for it or not?
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Still waiting for your reply Rain cmon man it's the third round?
You coming out for it or not?
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Where has the heavyweight champion gone?
I'm looking for Jul Rain, anyone seen him? Jul Rain, hey JULIUS RAIN!!!
I'M NOT DONE WITH YOU YET
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
What's the fight look like from ring side, Violent D?
Well Rains when down hard at the end of the second round. He got up wobbly on unsteady legs. He went to the wrong corner before being instructed to the proper corner. He's sitting on his stool with his head down. It seriously look like he's thinking of not coming out.
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
It would appear that the heavyweight champ is not going to come out for the third round
Is there a time limit on this thing?
I can't believe this has got to go 12 rounds, it's taken two days already and we havn't started the third yet
At this rate we'll still be debating this in the run up to Christmas
Mr. President
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Round 3: Julius Rain, comes out punishing bilbo. how will he respond? hopefully not another attempt to make v.d feel secure and happy he won't have to take on Mr. Marvelous himself, julius rain
This is not even comparable really, lets list the fighters in the flyweight division.
Calderon
Mijares
Nonito
Darchinyan
Arce
We can put all of those guys against eachother in one card but will never be as anticipated as a heavyweight bout between any of these names:
Wladimir
Oleg
Briggs
Valuev
James
Tua
Fans may say many heavyweights are old and past it, but honestly who wouldn't still want to see a fight between james toney versus david tua? that alone beats the best possible bout in the flyweight which is Donaire versus Mijares. Who wouldn't want to see if david tua can knock the fat out of james toney? Who wouldn't tune in on james toney's post or pre fight interviews.
There are alot more fighters and fights that are marketable in the heavyweight division. The only way the lower weight classes can bring more attention on them is by wins via knock outs. Just like how Prince Hamed gave some light to the featherweight division when he was hyped up to be a knock out artist. But them days are gone, breeding big punchers slash brawlers such as darchinyan or arce whom have been beaten and expose by better boxer but lesser excitement value. Purist boxing fans, would appreciate the talent of these boxers such as mijares. but the flyweights need a bright star that can put butts on seats.
Theres no flyweight fight that can produce a greatly anticipated pay per view fight. The heavyweight division can still sell its self but the flyweight division can only hope for a star to rise but that is unlikely becuase if a star does emerge, he'll need to be delivering excitement after excitement. Theres nothing more exciting then knock outs in boxing, weather us purist fans admit it or not. Purist fan can appreciate a boxing talent when its displayed, but majority of fight fans are not purist fans they are hardcore who seaks knock outs. The only way flyweight division can successful bring its fighters into light is to have more drama more action and more fighters. Without looking at the rankings I bet Bilbo can't even name more then five flyweights. And I bet he can name twice as much heavyweights, that alone proves how much exciting heavyweight is to him becuase even though we don't currently have a great heavyweight we still do follow whats going on in the division. Most of fans don't follow the flyweight division, and thats the truth becuause the little guys are the undercard of heavyweight events. When we watch a fight live most of us don't even arrive early enough to see the flyweights on the undercard. Majority of the fans don't pay attention to that division.
Look at the many heavyweight bouts we could have:
wladimir versus briggs
wladimir versus valuev
oleg versus liakhovich
peter versus tua
tua versus toney
sultan versus peter
valuev versus tua
valuev versus peter
those are just examples, imagine a showdown between valuev and wladimir. Call it a circus but who wouldn't want to see that happend? theres nothing more exciting then a giant fight, people love giants, people will buy to see giants specially in boxing gloves. This fight is more marketable then any flyweight fight in history. And throughout history people pay to see unusually big humans. Even the average joe whom never witness the sweet science will buy into this event.
there is no match or fighter in the flyweight division that can be big enough to stage big events. ivan calderon can't produce enough action or more than 10 knock outs. Nonito Donaire is still under 20 fights and already has expose the once hype darchinyan, Mijares a good talent but can we honestly say Mijares will headline a big boxing event? he just shutdown the other hype big mouth flyweight fighter from the big brother show arce.
Who can produce excitement bilbo in the flyweight? is there any match that can be made that can sell as a huge pay per view event?
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Bilbo's post Round 3.
I was going to use this round to expand some more on some of the exciting flyweights coming into the fight fans consciousness and I will get to that but firstly let me offer my response to your own posting.
You have me confused when you say the following 'This is not even comparable really'. You then list the most exciting fighters in the flyweight division, although you ommitted the ultra exciting super flyweight Fernando Montiel who was involved in one of the most exciting fights of the year last time out.
You then listed Shannon Briggs, Nikolay Valuev, Oleg Maskeav, Toneyand Tua
I find myself asking if this is some kind of a joke? I'm being totally serious
I can't remember in the entire history of boxing (Ruiz being the exception) when by popular consensus champions like Briggs and Maskaev are considered the weakest in the entire history of the sport. Since when have there fights been exciting? Granted they produce a certain comedic appeal and I too laughed when both the hapless Hasim Rahman and the slightly less crappy but still crappy Sergei Lyakhovich got knocked clean out of the ring in their fights with Briggs and Maskaev but it was laughter and disbelief rather than excitement.
If you can honestly say that you enjoy watching Shannon Briggs plod and wheeze his way through 12 of the most uneventful in boxing history then fair play to you.
You mention Toney, and I know why as he's the only 'heavyeight' with any skills but he's currently banned for steroid abuse and has looked a shell of his former self recently
As for the rest of your mostly retarded post let me just pick apart the main points.
Who wouldn't want to see a fight between Toney and Tua? Probably most fans who would just dearly love to see James Toney retire.
As for the heavyweight division being more marketable, it's the premiere division in boxing and supposedly one of the most illustrious of all sporting leagues. Of course the average fan is more aware of the heavyweights it would take probably 20 years of no heavyweights for the shift to be made to the lighter divisions in the consciousness of the casual fan.
To use an example the Catholic Church still numbers 2 billion adherents and is seemingly a massive organisation but how many of those Catholics still really believe their religion?
The faith has by and large long since left but the organisation remains.
Likewise the heavyweight division will remain the flagship division in the minds of the casual fan irrespective of whether anybody worthy is actually fighting in that division or not, those type of seismic shifts take years to occur.
You make an interesting point about nobody staging big flyweight events, well I can tell straight away from that statement that you are an American
Dimly aware that other countries to your own actually exist on this earth it may suprise you that not every nation has a 50% obesity rate with most American children weighing more than the average adult male of a 100 years ago. I may be exaggerating slightly but you get my point.
Not every nation has a diet of McDonalds Burgers, French Fries and Cola and they actually weigh a lot less as a result.
In Asia and South America where the average height and bodyweight is much lower than the states these fights ARE big business.
Your post merely reflects your own ethnocentric narrow minded ignorant bias.
As for the rest of your post you yourself seem to be apologetic about your claims. Who wouldn't want to see Wlad vs Valuev you say? You then say everyone loves giants and that it would be a great circus event?
Is that what the heavyweight division has been reducued to? Cheap novelty acts in place of the former great bouts between true pugilistic greats such as Ali, Formean, Luis, Dempsey and Marciano?
Quite honestly you can stick your circus clowns, loud mouthed fatties and ape like giants, I'm a boxing fan not a Ringling Brothers or Barnum and Bailey circus groupie.
I want to watch exciting fights, with skills, speed, technical flair and drama.
I don't want to watch Big Foot and the Hendersons, so I'll stick to the flyweights thankyou very much
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Ringside report
Commentator: Your opinion on how the fight is going, champ?
Violent Demise: This fight is turning into a rout. Rains is taking a beating. Bilbo has come out with facts and reasons why the flyweight division is more exciting. Rains is staying with the same losing game plan. "There bigger so that makes them more exciting." And he's not winning. Rains need to adjust now, for him to have any chance of winning.
Commentator: Excellent points, champ. Any personal choice on who you want to see win?
Violent Demise: I don't give a fuck. There both clowns to me. Got no love for either.
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Cheers for the 'support' tough guyOriginally Posted by Violent Demise
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictableCheers for the 'support' tough guy
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
To be fair only a fool could see Rains winning this, so he probably thinks he doing great.No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictableCheers for the 'support' tough guy
Obviously I can't second guess the judges but I'd say there's been a couple 10-8 rounds now surely.
Hopefully the ref will soon think about stopping this one?
Are you still going to debate him after this? He hardly seems worthy?
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
He was never worthy. But in his head he think he is. Foolish kid. I'll debate him anyway, if he really wants the punishment. I haven't had a tune-up in a while. But I think there might concerns about his safety. Back to back brutal losses to you and me will just about ruin the boy. Let's see if he has any fight left. If he shows a little something. I'll go ahead and murder what's left of his career. But if he doesn't, it'll be a waste of my time. Plus I doubt the fight would even get sanctioned.To be fair only a fool could see Rains winning this, so he probably thinks he doing great.No support. Just calling it like I see it. Watch Rains think otherwise. That boy is so predictableCheers for the 'support' tough guy
Obviously I can't second guess the judges but I'd say there's been a couple 10-8 rounds now surely.
Hopefully the ref will soon think about stopping this one?
Are you still going to debate him after this? He hardly seems worthy?
Mr. President
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Let me waste a post:
hasn't it been agreed, that no unwanted intruder (v.d) should be intruding during the debates?
go clean the toilet v.d, your walmart crew needs you. your not a judge here so you need to wait your turn.
Bilbo can we get on with the debates with out side insults and more of your nonsense posting.
and i'm understanding is we are suppose to have 12 post each, no other posting need to be posted. thats why I said let me waste a post, and technically you've wasted about 5 post already.
where in the world are the judges and president of this anyways? can we get some rules enforce here? distraction and self-groupies (v.d) needs to let it alone with the two combatants.
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
I don't think they count our non round posts so don't worry. I'd certainl complain like stink if they counted my posts asking where my opponent had gone as round posts.
For a while it was just me all alone with the lights off. I was ready to go home.
By the way good posting, I'm sure VD will reverse things quick but I liked the Walmart jibe.
Anyways if your corner are still insisting you continue care to start Round 4?
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
I'm just telling you views from Ringside. Which is allowed in every "Pro Fight". Your suppose to be the champion (how that happen?) simple views from observers shouldn't bother you. Trust me if you were whipping Bilbo's ass, I would point it out just as well.
Mr. President
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Re: Debate for the MMWC Heavy/Flyweight Titles.
Round 4:
you sticking to flyweight? quit trying to lie out from your teeth bilbo. your the worst to be defending the flyweight division or the easiest to be against when it comes to a topic where your pro-flyweight. you haven't made any reason or explanations why the flyweight division is better then the heavyweight division. YOU YOURSELF THINK THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A PROFESSIONAL SPORT, OR NOT BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS MATCH. it should already end there, but your picking up craps left and right trying to convince the judges and yourself your actually make sense out of what you don't even believe. Bilbo saying the 'FLYWEIGHT DIVISOIN IS EXCITING? you make a mockering of guys like me and cutmemick when we talk about the lower weight classes. You don't even follow them as much as we do.
You bring up fernando Montiel?you think his the ultra exciting fighter in the flyweight? can he bring the flyweight to the bright lights? NO and I can't even help but think if not for the deductions would he still be champion? I highly doubt it, Gorres did held on excessively but the referee didn't give much warnings. After montiels lost to jhonny he went back down to flyweight and thats when he out pointed Gorres in 12 round split decision.
Why don't you name some flyweights you thnk that can carry the division instead of trying to get others to jump on your bandwagon with more infamous bilbo nonsense posting.
yes I named briggs maskeav valuev toney and tua, why because even though in the past they have produce less exciting bouts with lesser oppenents. IF we put any two of those guys in the same ring, it could ignite a damn exciting fight. the problem with the heavyweight, is we have had too many fighters fighting bums. But now even briggs is in the mix, although his robotic his still a freak of nature not to be taken lightly. There are a lot more names in the heavyweight division that we can put together then in the flyweight division. like I said earlier, noun of the top current flyweights can be exciting enough to overshadow any potential heavyweight event.
What possible matches in the flyweight can you come up with that can sell a pay per view?
throughout history the flyweight division has been only for the purist fans, and its not going to change any time soon. The heavyweight division is still followed by every fan not just purist. I won't deny the fact that the flyweights can produce talented boxer, but the public do not pay attention to that division as much as they do with the heavyweight division.
Currently the flyweight isn't even that great to be comparable to any factors.
The heavyweight division dominates every catagory,
p4p nobody in the flyweights comes close to wladimir Klitschko: despite his shocking knock out lost and his suspect chin, wlady is a great talent and can potentially be a great heavyweight. He can box, he has improving defense and conditioning, and on top of that his sledgehammer right can sell out staples center in L.A.
Drama: james Toney, theres no james toney in the flyweight division. call him old and past his prime but when he starts running his mouth we listen and be amuse. this guy can draw in a crowd anywhere, his still p4p better than any flyweight and theres nobody in that division can compare to his ongoing james toney ora that entertains both inside and outside the ring.
Headlines: a seven foot tall boxer can headline any newspaper anywhere in the world, but a 5 foot 110 pounds fighter is less likely to even make 4 lines in the back of the sports section. Valuev can bring in many casual fans, a date with wlady would be legendary. Even you bilbo would love to see these two get it on.
Vitaly Klitschko: if he does ever come back, he'll add onto the many potential great fights we can see in the near future.
The only way for you to win bilbo is to start explaning how in the world can the flyweight compare to the heavy hitters, who in that division can you put together and be a big event?
Face it the flyweight division is not currently better then the heavyweight division. even if we don't have the once golden era of heavyweights. the flyweights still are not more then they've always been, the heavyweight is less of its former state but by no means have the flyweights become better in any sense.
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