Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
Much better, another thing that pacs oppenent fail to consistently do is to go to his body. I barely see anyone hit pac to the body. IMO JMM needs to put enough damage to pacs body to slow him down to avoid pac dominating later on with his speed,stamina and power.
I agree Rains but the only problem with that is that to go to the body effectively you have to get close to your opponent. And because Marquez will be fighting on the outside, throwing body shots from the outside is dangerous and is a big no no, because your hands drop and you leave such easy countering opportunities for your opponent. and because of how powerful and quick Pacquiao is he would easily tag Marquez and spark him out no question in my mind. Unless Marquez times Pacquiao coming in and ducks then shoots out a good body shot, and if he landed it correctly and effectively that would do major damage to Pacquiao because he would be walking right into it.
Honestly, you got me here cause I failed to think about how JMM will be at risk throwing body shots since you have pointed out that to throw body shots one must be up close and in dead range. I did not think about how it will cause jmm to drop his hands and be open at a dangerous range for exchanges or combinations from pac. Honestly the type of body shot i was thinking about wasn't the inside fighting type of body shot throwing. I had the penalosa liver shot knock out against jhonny, penalosa set it up nice dodge a punch then countering to the body. That was the type I had in mind. Good thing we clear that up.
Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
if you watch footage of pac especially in the marco rematch. You can see where he puts himself infront of his oppenent. There are times when pac dodges out of range then quickly goes right back to where he is at an angle where he feels he can get his shots off quick and hard. People never pay attention to details now a days,
What a lot of Pacquiao's opponent's don't realize is that when Pacquiao bob's and weaves there is always a pattern. Just like with Tyson when he bobbed and weaved, and you can actually time it and counter. Little details like that can help in a big way.
Yes there is a pattern to every fighters movement, some far more discrete then others. Pacs body movement like I said earlier is more design to make his oppenents pause and give pac the moment he is looking for to throw his punches. Timing it Im sure it'll be hard cause his right infront of you. If you wait too long it could be you that is being setup for some incoming bombs. I think keeping the jab out there will buy JMM time and distract pacs rythem.
Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
BAck to JMM, IMO JMM needs to rely on pac making mistakes then to rely on beating him to the punch cause pac is faster between the two. JMM needs to pick his shots wisely cause if not pac will not only land one but he'll get in atleast two.
Like i said earlier Rains this is where timing comes into play, no matter how fast your opponent is. If you can time them effectively your timing will always beat there speed. And thats basically what Marquez needs to do time Pacquiao's feints etc.
Yes timing is everything against a quick fighter like pac. JMM can capitolize on pacs speed if he makes him miss then catch pac on his way in. Making the punch a lot more effective becuase of the impact of pac coming in and a punch collideing right at him.
Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
Ice you said pac has not made any major improvements but if you watch footage of him enough Im sure you'll understand his more of a complete fighter now.
Im not trying to say he hasn't made much improvements because he has, but not *Major* improvements IMO, he still has the same flaws Marquez can take advantage of. But i will give Pacquiao his credit he uses good angles now and he has a much better variety of punches.
IMO the only flaws pac still have are the ones he'll always have. His speed came with bad balance, his power came with his wildness so look at it as a gift and a curse. Pac like any other fighter is not perfect but his natural gifts will always outweight his flaws. His stamina plays a huge part to his legacy though, cause its curse is a positive one....relentless. Pac is a very top notch conditioned fighter and he is very very relentless. That one is one that noun can take advantage of cause relentless equals many things,courage,durability,determination etc.
Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
If you watch round 6 of the mab rematch, you can see that mab did have the abbility to hit pac cleanly cause yes pac is not a great defensive fighter BUT the problem with that is pacs ability to rally right back through his oppenents. Marco at times won the exchange but pac landed some bigger shots
I think the main problem was that Barrera was too gun shy, he did use some good tactics like with his jab and his movement. But he wasn't landing enough hurtful punches on Pacquiao and he didn't get any respect from Pacquiao. Plus he didn't pull the trigger when there were countering opportunities.
Gotta disagree with you on this one ice, there was a reason why mab was gun shy and it was due to who was in the ring with him. Pac scraped him in the first fight badly and that remains in fighters mind. This leads me to think that JMM will also fall gun shy atleast in the first few rounds against pac, cause Im sure he does not want a repeat of consecutive knock downs. Another thing, Mab did land when he threw but everytime he landed you can tell it awakes pac which seemed to be what Mab wanted to avoid. He clearly did not want to spark an all out war so it made him keep his distant and in doing so did not win rounds.
Originally Posted by
Julius Marvelous Rain
he should not rely on winning exchanges cause it is a lose lose situation against pac. Like i said, pac at times lose the exchanges but he discourage his oppenents simply because he shows no sign of slowing down and when he does win the exchange well its obvious that does damage. Like me and you Ice, JMM IMO does need to rely on timing he needs to take advantage of when pac is either off balance or squaring up wildly.
Im in total agreement here good posting a lot of boxers are too macho and try and finish exchanges when it isn't to there best advantage. But i think Marquez is too smart for that, i know you don't like me bringing up 1st fight but i need to here to explain a point. If you see in the 1st fight that Marquez would land 3 or 2 good punches and Pacquiao would fire back and sometimes win the exchange, but Marquez didn't get let his pride get in the way and he just stepped back and continued to fight his fight.
Pacquiao does sometimes go off balance when he is coming in, your right about that and a good counter puncher like Marquez can for certain take advantage of that. And im glad you also see my point about when Pacquiao squares his shoulders up and leaves countering opportunities.
I would just like to finish off by saying i really do like Pacquiao as a fighter, i think people get the wrong impression of me because i have gone against Pacquiao in some fights. But i have stuck up for Pacquiao in the past believe it or not. I really enjoy watching him fight he is a true warrior with great power and quick hands, whats not too like about his boxing ??
He also ducks nobody and i really admire him for taking this fight, im rooting for Marquez but if Pacquiao wins you won't see any sour grapes from me, may the better man win and lets hope we see a competitive great action packed fight.
Im off the bed now because im really tired i will continue this tomorrow with you because i have enjoyed this debate so far.
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Re: Pac vs JMM (rematch) vote and explain
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