Is Kostya Tszyu really the greatest 140 pounder ever?

[Beanflicker]

I think Aaron Pryor and maybe JCC were better, but Kostya is one of the greats for sure.

[zhubin]

You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!

[El Gamo]

I'm really surprised,I did this thread about a year and a half ago, and I'm sure the consensus was that he was the best 140 pounder! Wow!You guys all make valid points.

You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!

I used to think Tszyu would beat Mayweather but I'm not so sure anymore.Not at all. To beat Floyd,you need alot more things than just 1 huge punch. Mayweather has shown,even in the Oscar fight,if your arsenal is primarily based around 1 punch,you're not going to beat him,no matter how good it is(and Oscar's left hook is a thing of beauty).

I do think Tszyu had a way of solving boxers,and he had an awesome sense of timing,but Mayweather is in a different league to Mitchell and Zab. And as for Kostya lasting with Aaaron Pryor,forget about it. Every fighter has a style that they cannot handle,for KT,I think that is in your face pressure fighters,like Hatton and Phillips. They never gave him a chance to get his bombs off,they never gave him time to think. Pryor was more monstrous than those 2 combined,Pryor stops Tszyu every time for me.The Hawk may get dropped but he'll get back up and win for sure imo.

I don't think Tszyu could have beaten Hatton even in his prime.Hatton had too much pressure and walked through his best shots. I'd give Tszyu more of a chance if the fight was not in England for sure,and if he was younger,but I'd still choose Hatton to win. I didn't see a single sign in the first match for me to say Tszyu would beat Hatton.

[zhubin]

I'm really surprised,I did this thread about a year and a half ago, and I'm sure the consensus was that he was the best 140 pounder! Wow!You guys all make valid points.

You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!

I used to think Tszyu would beat Mayweather but I'm not so sure anymore.Not at all. To beat Floyd,you need alot more things than just 1 huge punch. Mayweather has shown,even in the Oscar fight,if your arsenal is primarily based around 1 punch,you're not going to beat him,no matter how good it is(and Oscar's left hook is a thing of beauty).

I do think Tszyu had a way of solving boxers,and he had an awesome sense of timing,but Mayweather is in a different league to Mitchell and Zab. And as for Kostya lasting with Aaaron Pryor,forget about it. Every fighter has a style that they cannot handle,for KT,I think that is in your face pressure fighters,like Hatton and Phillips. They never gave him a chance to get his bombs off,they never gave him time to think. Pryor was more monstrous than those 2 combined,Pryor stops Tszyu every time for me.The Hawk may get dropped but he'll get back up and win for sure imo.

I don't think Tszyu could have beaten Hatton even in his prime.Hatton had too much pressure and walked through his best shots. I'd give Tszyu more of a chance if the fight was not in England for sure,and if he was younger,but I'd still choose Hatton to win. I didn't see a single sign in the first match for me to say Tszyu would beat Hatton.

Tszyu possessed much more than just a powerful single punch. He is a better fighter and better conditioned athlete than Oscar as well. To beat Floyd you need good speed, timing, accuracy, stamina, and intelligence. All of which KT had in abundance to go along with his great power. Not saying KT would definitely win...but it would have been a great fight and BY FAR Floyd's biggest challenge. I guess one can argue that Hatton's pressure style could have always posed problems for Tszyu. But the fight took place way to late in his career and under far from ideal circumstances for me to simply think Hatton could have beaten Tszyu in his prime. And again...i just feel he wasn't physically right against Phillips. As for Pryor...he was a beast. No question he would be a great challenge for anyone at that weight.

[X]

The best 140 pounder of all time might have been a ten year old Joe Louis ?

[Kev]

Ok this post may be unpopular but I believe that historically the 140 lb division is one of the weakest and there are many fighters who could have been the best in this division but they used it just to pass through.

In my opinion guys like De La Hoya, Mayweather, Duran, Whittaker etc were all better than Tyzsu but they just passed through the division.

It's a stepping stone division, like most of these junior divisions. Elite fighters pass through these divisions on the way to the proper divisions like welterwight, middleweight etc but they only remain there if they are too big for the division below but not good enough for the proper division above it.

That's why I ultimately don't care who was the best at this weight as to me its like asking which is the best football team in the League cup, or who is the best Formula 3000 racer ever, ultimately it doesn't matter as the the teams that win the league and the drivers who win formula one are better than them anyhow.

[Master]

I believe Tszyu would have beaten the guys Bilbo mentioned but not JCC.

[eagle]

I am a HUGE KT fan, but yet i find it hard to call him defintely the greatest 140 fighter of all time. I think the definite top 3 are KT, JCC and Pryor (maybe Hatton coulde join them if he returns to 140 and unifies.)
Kostya's opponents werent the greatest, but they werent all duds either, and in his prime around 1998-2002 Kostya absolutely destroyed some good names. I think Kostya would have beaten all the opponents that JCC and Pryor faced as well.

The one thing missing in his career is a win or even a close fight against a huge name like Mayweather, Mosely, DLH etc.... But unfortunately none of those guys wanted anything to do with Kostya. Too big a risk for too little reward.

[Greig]

I'm really surprised,I did this thread about a year and a half ago, and I'm sure the consensus was that he was the best 140 pounder! Wow!You guys all make valid points.

You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!

I used to think Tszyu would beat Mayweather but I'm not so sure anymore.Not at all. To beat Floyd,you need alot more things than just 1 huge punch. Mayweather has shown,even in the Oscar fight,if your arsenal is primarily based around 1 punch,you're not going to beat him,no matter how good it is(and Oscar's left hook is a thing of beauty).

I do think Tszyu had a way of solving boxers,and he had an awesome sense of timing,but Mayweather is in a different league to Mitchell and Zab. And as for Kostya lasting with Aaaron Pryor,forget about it. Every fighter has a style that they cannot handle,for KT,I think that is in your face pressure fighters,like Hatton and Phillips. They never gave him a chance to get his bombs off,they never gave him time to think. Pryor was more monstrous than those 2 combined,Pryor stops Tszyu every time for me.The Hawk may get dropped but he'll get back up and win for sure imo.

I don't think Tszyu could have beaten Hatton even in his prime.Hatton had too much pressure and walked through his best shots. I'd give Tszyu more of a chance if the fight was not in England for sure,and if he was younger,but I'd still choose Hatton to win. I didn't see a single sign in the first match for me to say Tszyu would beat Hatton.

Tszyu possessed much more than just a powerful single punch. He is a better fighter and better conditioned athlete than Oscar as well. To beat Floyd you need good speed, timing, accuracy, stamina, and intelligence. All of which KT had in abundance to go along with his great power. Not saying KT would definitely win...but it would have been a great fight and BY FAR Floyd's biggest challenge. I guess one can argue that Hatton's pressure style could have always posed problems for Tszyu. But the fight took place way to late in his career and under far from ideal circumstances for me to simply think Hatton could have beaten Tszyu in his prime. And again...i just feel he wasn't physically right against Phillips. As for Pryor...he was a beast. No question he would be a great challenge for anyone at that weight.

Interesting.


I've watched Tszyu/Hatton about 5 times now. The strange thing is that it was a damn close fight, and IMO the toughest fight of Hatton's life - apart from his two trips to 147. One could also make the argument that Hatton hasn't been as good since the Tszyu fight. Vince Phillips was certainly not the same fighter after facing Tszyu...

The scorecards were close, and should have been closer. Tszyu scored a legitimate knockdown with a body shot that was waved off for some reason, plust Hatton's intentional low blow should have had a point taken off.

I think Tszyu/Hatton would have been a tough fight for both guys no matter when in their careers they met. But how someone could say they saw NO signs that Tszyu could have beaten Hatton at some stage is beyond me. It was Hatton's finest night as a pro, with the crowd and ref firmly behind him - and yet Tszyu still made it a close fight.

[Taeth]

I'm really surprised,I did this thread about a year and a half ago, and I'm sure the consensus was that he was the best 140 pounder! Wow!You guys all make valid points.

You can make a case for JCC, Pryor, or Chavez being the best at that weight. All great fighters. But in his prime...i wouldn't bet against Tszyu against anybody at 140. Tremendous power, skill, and intelligence. As The Third Man already mentioned...he wasn't physically right in the Phillips fight. The Hatton fight was a combination of age and horrible refereeing. Not trying to make excuses for Kostya...just don't think he was at his best for those two fights. My dream fight has always been Tszyu vs. Mayweather in their primes. That would have been a tremendous fight!

I used to think Tszyu would beat Mayweather but I'm not so sure anymore.Not at all. To beat Floyd,you need alot more things than just 1 huge punch. Mayweather has shown,even in the Oscar fight,if your arsenal is primarily based around 1 punch,you're not going to beat him,no matter how good it is(and Oscar's left hook is a thing of beauty).

I do think Tszyu had a way of solving boxers,and he had an awesome sense of timing,but Mayweather is in a different league to Mitchell and Zab. And as for Kostya lasting with Aaaron Pryor,forget about it. Every fighter has a style that they cannot handle,for KT,I think that is in your face pressure fighters,like Hatton and Phillips. They never gave him a chance to get his bombs off,they never gave him time to think. Pryor was more monstrous than those 2 combined,Pryor stops Tszyu every time for me.The Hawk may get dropped but he'll get back up and win for sure imo.

I don't think Tszyu could have beaten Hatton even in his prime.Hatton had too much pressure and walked through his best shots. I'd give Tszyu more of a chance if the fight was not in England for sure,and if he was younger,but I'd still choose Hatton to win. I didn't see a single sign in the first match for me to say Tszyu would beat Hatton.

Tszyu possessed much more than just a powerful single punch. He is a better fighter and better conditioned athlete than Oscar as well. To beat Floyd you need good speed, timing, accuracy, stamina, and intelligence. All of which KT had in abundance to go along with his great power. Not saying KT would definitely win...but it would have been a great fight and BY FAR Floyd's biggest challenge. I guess one can argue that Hatton's pressure style could have always posed problems for Tszyu. But the fight took place way to late in his career and under far from ideal circumstances for me to simply think Hatton could have beaten Tszyu in his prime. And again...i just feel he wasn't physically right against Phillips. As for Pryor...he was a beast. No question he would be a great challenge for anyone at that weight.

Tszyu is a better technical fighter than Oscar, but Oscar's left hook lands as hard as Tszyu's right hand, he is alot faster than Tszyum, and Oscar has always had good timing, and Floyd Snr has improved his defensive to go along with that height made it hard for Mayweather to land a lot of his shots the way he likes to. Tszyu is definitely a good fighter, but this fight is more like JCC-Whitaker than anything... Mayweather is too slick, too durable, and too hard to hit for Tszyu to stand a real chance against. Mayweather was way faster at 140 than he is now, what him against Gatti, Corley, etc., and you will see a guy too quick, and too smart for Tszyu as great as he was. Because he, Floyd, didn't stay at the weight he would be considered ATG better at the weight, but he would beat Tszyu decidedly, However I still believe JCC was better than Tszyu in many aspects and its a toss up between them for who's the "greatest" 140 pounder.

[ICB]

One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.

[eagle]

One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.

His corner took him out of the fight as far as im aware. Kostya was not happy about it apparently.

[ICB]

One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.

His corner took him out of the fight as far as im aware. Kostya was not happy about it apparently.

Pretty strange isn't it ?? with hindsight Tszyu couldn't of won on judges scorecards. But still his corner should of let him go out for the final round and at least let him go out on his shield thats a terrible way to end your career on the stool.

[eagle]

One thing i never understood is why Kostya Tszyu quit vs Hatton ?? that was very close fight and i had Hatton only leading by 1 point if i remember right going into the 12th.

His corner took him out of the fight as far as im aware. Kostya was not happy about it apparently.

Pretty strange isn't it ?? with hindsight Tszyu couldn't of won on judges scorecards. But still his corner should of let him go out for the final round and at least let him go out on his shield thats a terrible way to end your career on the stool.

The reason Kt's trainer Johnny Lewis gave was that from looking at Kostya and talking to him in the corner he thought he was gone and had nothing else left. Lewis said he did it to prevent further damage.
Rumour has it the Tszyu had minor bruising on the brain(if brain bruising can be minor) so maybe it was the right call.

Also i dont think they knew it'd be his last fight at the time.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I've thought for a while that his resume was overrated.

He doesn't have a great win, he has some good wins.

Doesn't mean he's not a good fighter, I think he was a great fighter but he never had that elite win. Maybe for a time Judah looked like a great win but does anybody really think that's a great win now? You can say it wasn't his fault that he never had that big fight win but that's not really the point.

And he didn't avenge his losses, although the Hatton one is understandable cause he was getting up there and just decided to retire.

So I would say no.

50% of all Tszyu's fights were against World Champions, how can his resume be overrated? As for rematches, a Phillips second fight was scheduled but he lost to Millett in 1999 and Tszyu went onto to fight Miguel Angel Gonzalez.