The LINEAL welterweight championship

[killersheep]

If Mayweather hasn't signed or started negotiations to fight Cotto by this time next year then Cotto deserves the tag 'PEOPLES CHAMPION or UNCROWNED CHAMPION'

The alphabet idiots don't mean sh*t, Floyd could throw that crap trinket in the trash & he would still be the recognized champion!

I think a Mayweather/ Cotto fight will be bigger in 2009 than right now with Cotto hopefully getting past Margarito & Mayweather continuing to increase his crossover appeal against De La Hoya.

The fans will demand it & I'm sure we'll get it!

I still recognize Floyd as p4p #1 as I mentioned earlier, but fighting people that are not ranked in the weight class mentioned, should not allow you to continue holding that weight classe's distinctive honor.

IMO Floyd lost being the 147 lb. champ when he opted to not fight anyone ranked at 147 for a year after winning the title.

Yes I respect Floyd's victory's over Hatton (unranked at 147, although highly ranked at 140) and ODLH (unranked at 147, although highly ranked at 154) these are things that maintain his p4p status, but have nothing to do with being a weight class champion.

Hatton was a defense of his championship. During the war years champions held their titles for years without defending. I'm not saying its the same thing but everyone wanted DLH/ Mayweather 1 & the figures prove that, a lot of people wanted Mayweather/ Hatton. So Mayweather is fighting the fights the majority want to see.

I can't see how you don't recognize Mayweather as 147 champ he's never lost it in the ring & it's only been 5 months since his last defense. From when he won the championship from Baldomir it was 13 months until he defended against Hatton with the DLH fight in between. I think your being a little harsh.

I don't think I being harsh at all, as I still recognize him as p4p # 1 but I think a ranking system has to have merit as well as what sells fights, a ranking system is what makes pro sports. By virtue of what you are saying being ranked in the top 10 of the welterweight class is meaningless ultimately because if the champ chooses not to fight anyone there, there is no consequence.

[Galaxy]

I still recognize Floyd as p4p #1 as I mentioned earlier, but fighting people that are not ranked in the weight class mentioned, should not allow you to continue holding that weight classe's distinctive honor.

IMO Floyd lost being the 147 lb. champ when he opted to not fight anyone ranked at 147 for a year after winning the title.

Yes I respect Floyd's victory's over Hatton (unranked at 147, although highly ranked at 140) and ODLH (unranked at 147, although highly ranked at 154) these are things that maintain his p4p status, but have nothing to do with being a weight class champion.

Hatton was a defense of his championship. During the war years champions held their titles for years without defending. I'm not saying its the same thing but everyone wanted DLH/ Mayweather 1 & the figures prove that, a lot of people wanted Mayweather/ Hatton. So Mayweather is fighting the fights the majority want to see.

I can't see how you don't recognize Mayweather as 147 champ he's never lost it in the ring & it's only been 5 months since his last defense. From when he won the championship from Baldomir it was 13 months until he defended against Hatton with the DLH fight in between. I think your being a little harsh.

I don't think I being harsh at all, as I still recognize him as p4p # 1 but I think a ranking system has to have merit as well as what sells fights, a ranking system is what makes pro sports. By virtue of what you are saying being ranked in the top 10 of the welterweight class is meaningless ultimately because if the champ chooses not to fight anyone there, there is no consequence.

By virtue of what your saying being the champion is worthless unless they fight who you want them to fight. You sure your a part of one of the alphabet groups?

Because thats precisely what we have today, belt holders having to defend against undeserving mandatories in fights that no one wants to see.

I too want to see Mayweather/ Cotto but not at the expense of throwing the sport I love into turmoil by recognizing another fighter as champion who hasn't even won that honor in the ring. To do that would be to continue the chaos that the alphabet jokers have created.

[killersheep]

Hatton was a defense of his championship. During the war years champions held their titles for years without defending. I'm not saying its the same thing but everyone wanted DLH/ Mayweather 1 & the figures prove that, a lot of people wanted Mayweather/ Hatton. So Mayweather is fighting the fights the majority want to see.

I can't see how you don't recognize Mayweather as 147 champ he's never lost it in the ring & it's only been 5 months since his last defense. From when he won the championship from Baldomir it was 13 months until he defended against Hatton with the DLH fight in between. I think your being a little harsh.

I don't think I being harsh at all, as I still recognize him as p4p # 1 but I think a ranking system has to have merit as well as what sells fights, a ranking system is what makes pro sports. By virtue of what you are saying being ranked in the top 10 of the welterweight class is meaningless ultimately because if the champ chooses not to fight anyone there, there is no consequence.

By virtue of what your saying being the champion is worthless unless they fight who you want them to fight. You sure your a part of one of the alphabet groups?

Because thats precisely what we have today, belt holders having to defend against undeserving mandatories in fights that no one wants to see.

I too want to see Mayweather/ Cotto but not at the expense of throwing the sport I love into turmoil by recognizing another fighter as champion who hasn't even won that honor in the ring. To do that would be to continue the chaos that the alphabet jokers have created.

Cheers mate I always enjoy debating you. I suppose I should clarify by top 10 I mean THE RING'S top 10, which is what I recognize as the foremost authority. I mean that's really what we're talking about here right.

His options to keep his title would be at this point
1) Miguel Cotto
2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
4) Paul Williams
5) Antonio Margarito
6) Zab Judah
7) Josh Clottey
Luis Collazo
9) Jackson Bonsu
10) Kermit Cintron

Look at those options, there are fights there that would make good money, fights that would make great money, fights that would be easy, fights that would be more competitive. I don't think it's asking too much for a divisional champ to defend his title again the top 10 list. Now if we are talking lineal champ, well how does that work if PBF has 1 alphabet and Cotto or Margarito has two straps?

[Galaxy]

I don't think I being harsh at all, as I still recognize him as p4p # 1 but I think a ranking system has to have merit as well as what sells fights, a ranking system is what makes pro sports. By virtue of what you are saying being ranked in the top 10 of the welterweight class is meaningless ultimately because if the champ chooses not to fight anyone there, there is no consequence.

By virtue of what your saying being the champion is worthless unless they fight who you want them to fight. You sure your a part of one of the alphabet groups?

Because thats precisely what we have today, belt holders having to defend against undeserving mandatories in fights that no one wants to see.

I too want to see Mayweather/ Cotto but not at the expense of throwing the sport I love into turmoil by recognizing another fighter as champion who hasn't even won that honor in the ring. To do that would be to continue the chaos that the alphabet jokers have created.

Cheers mate I always enjoy debating you. I suppose I should clarify by top 10 I mean THE RING'S top 10, which is what I recognize as the foremost authority. I mean that's really what we're talking about here right.

His options to keep his title would be at this point
1) Miguel Cotto
2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
4) Paul Williams
5) Antonio Margarito
6) Zab Judah
7) Josh Clottey
Luis Collazo
9) Jackson Bonsu
10) Kermit Cintron

Look at those options, there are fights there that would make good money, fights that would make great money, fights that would be easy, fights that would be more competitive. I don't think it's asking too much for a divisional champ to defend his title again the top 10 list. Now if we are talking lineal champ, well how does that work if PBF has 1 alphabet and Cotto or Margarito has two straps?

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

[killersheep]

By virtue of what your saying being the champion is worthless unless they fight who you want them to fight. You sure your a part of one of the alphabet groups?

Because thats precisely what we have today, belt holders having to defend against undeserving mandatories in fights that no one wants to see.

I too want to see Mayweather/ Cotto but not at the expense of throwing the sport I love into turmoil by recognizing another fighter as champion who hasn't even won that honor in the ring. To do that would be to continue the chaos that the alphabet jokers have created.

Cheers mate I always enjoy debating you. I suppose I should clarify by top 10 I mean THE RING'S top 10, which is what I recognize as the foremost authority. I mean that's really what we're talking about here right.

His options to keep his title would be at this point
1) Miguel Cotto
2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
4) Paul Williams
5) Antonio Margarito
6) Zab Judah
7) Josh Clottey
Luis Collazo
9) Jackson Bonsu
10) Kermit Cintron

Look at those options, there are fights there that would make good money, fights that would make great money, fights that would be easy, fights that would be more competitive. I don't think it's asking too much for a divisional champ to defend his title again the top 10 list. Now if we are talking lineal champ, well how does that work if PBF has 1 alphabet and Cotto or Margarito has two straps?

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

[Galaxy]

Cheers mate I always enjoy debating you. I suppose I should clarify by top 10 I mean THE RING'S top 10, which is what I recognize as the foremost authority. I mean that's really what we're talking about here right.

His options to keep his title would be at this point
1) Miguel Cotto
2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
4) Paul Williams
5) Antonio Margarito
6) Zab Judah
7) Josh Clottey
Luis Collazo
9) Jackson Bonsu
10) Kermit Cintron

Look at those options, there are fights there that would make good money, fights that would make great money, fights that would be easy, fights that would be more competitive. I don't think it's asking too much for a divisional champ to defend his title again the top 10 list. Now if we are talking lineal champ, well how does that work if PBF has 1 alphabet and Cotto or Margarito has two straps?

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

Out of Cotto's opponents none of them were champion. I'm sure a proud warrior such as Cotto would rather win his championship in the ring than have it handed to him.

Benny Leonard made just 6 defenses in 8 years, stripping is not the answer it just adds to the problem!

[killersheep]

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

Out of Cotto's opponents none of them were champion. I'm sure a proud warrior such as Cotto would rather win his championship in the ring than have it handed to him.

Benny Leonard made just 6 defenses in 8 years, stripping is not the answer it just adds to the problem!

I don't think punishing people for not defending against the top 10 adds to the problem, it would make fighters have to fight more often, the lack of activity is the problem to me. I hate the fact that it is standard for title holders to fight once or twice a year and that is the norm now.

[Galaxy]

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

Out of Cotto's opponents none of them were champion. I'm sure a proud warrior such as Cotto would rather win his championship in the ring than have it handed to him.

Benny Leonard made just 6 defenses in 8 years, stripping is not the answer it just adds to the problem!

I don't think punishing people for not defending against the top 10 adds to the problem, it would make fighters have to fight more often, the lack of activity is the problem to me. I hate the fact that it is standard for title holders to fight once or twice a year and that is the norm now.

Having more than one champion in each division is the biggest problem there is for our sport. No other sport has this ridiculousness!

I too get frustrated by inactivity but fighters make loads more these days so they don't need to fight as often... I don't see this changing.

But recognizing one champion in each division is something simple we can do to better our sport & Ring magazine has given us the opportunity to do this.

As I remember Hatton was ranked about #4 at 147 until he informed the Ring that he was returning to 140. So in essence by defeating Hatton Floyd defeated not only another champion but also potentially a top 10 welter.

[Puya]

That was a good read. whomever wins between Cotto and Margarito should be consider the Champ at 147. Floyd would still be considered p4p #1 IMO but really has no claim anymore at 147.

Just for the benefit of doubt I still give Floyd the The LINEAL welterweight championship Title.

But if he decides not to fight the winnner of Cotto vs MArgarito and pull the same bullshit he did when Cotto beats Mosley.

In my eyes and many as well will no longer see Floyd as the Top WW and will be ignore untill he retires or fights a true WW in his Prime in the Top 5.

[Puya]

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

Out of Cotto's opponents none of them were champion. I'm sure a proud warrior such as Cotto would rather win his championship in the ring than have it handed to him.

Benny Leonard made just 6 defenses in 8 years, stripping is not the answer it just adds to the problem!

Well Quintana became a Champion. and now he is fighting a champion.

realistically do any of you see the Baldomir that beat Judah beating Cotto or MArgarito?

[Macho]

Cheers mate I always enjoy debating you. I suppose I should clarify by top 10 I mean THE RING'S top 10, which is what I recognize as the foremost authority. I mean that's really what we're talking about here right.

His options to keep his title would be at this point
1) Miguel Cotto
2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
4) Paul Williams
5) Antonio Margarito
6) Zab Judah
7) Josh Clottey
Luis Collazo
9) Jackson Bonsu
10) Kermit Cintron

Look at those options, there are fights there that would make good money, fights that would make great money, fights that would be easy, fights that would be more competitive. I don't think it's asking too much for a divisional champ to defend his title again the top 10 list. Now if we are talking lineal champ, well how does that work if PBF has 1 alphabet and Cotto or Margarito has two straps?

I enjoy debating with you too.

You say his options to keep his title, does that mean you agree with stripping?

Out of all those fighters listed the winner of Cotto/ Margarito is the fight people will want to see & the one which make most sense.

By what I assume your insinuating is that if Floyd fights DLH next you'll recogize the Cotto/ Margarito winner as champ? Or you may already recognize Cotto.

But doesn't that leave us in the same predicament? Where we will have questions about who is better Cotto or Mayweather? Mayweather will still be the linear champion belt or no belts, Cotto will hold alphabet trinkets.

Isn't it much easier to recognize a champion until he is beaten in the ring. If that champion doesn't defend against who the fans what the we need to put pressure on him until the fights we want are made. The answer is not just to recognize someone else. You mentioned before about what makes pro sports. All other sports have one champion, that is what pro sports is all about!

If Cotto dismantles Margarito there will be no other opponent for Floyd to face.

I'm sure we will get Cotto/ Mayweather in early '09 but if we don't Mayweather will still be champion @ 147 until he is has his championship taken from him (in the ring)

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

I completely agree with you bro........you had been saying something real ..................
Good post............

[VictorCharlie]

Not to hijack the thread but is the use of the word "lineal" a British venacular? I only say this b/c I've never seen the term "Lineal Champ" only "Linear Champ". Lineal suggest of the same Lineage where Linear annotates in a sinlge line. Anyway I digress I just found it an odd use of words

[Tito BHB]

Not to hijack the thread but is the use of the word "lineal" a British venacular? I only say this b/c I've never seen the term "Lineal Champ" only "Linear Champ". Lineal suggest of the same Lineage where Linear annotates in a sinlge line. Anyway I digress I just found it an odd use of words

Yeah i know what you mean bro i thought the same thing myself..

I know what i mean by the term and i wondered whether it was linear of lineal so i actually looked it up before i posted..

lin·e·al Audio Help /ˈlɪniəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lin-ee-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1.being in the direct line, as a descendant or ancestor, or in a direct line, as descent or succession. 2.of or transmitted by lineal descent.

lin·e·ar Audio Help /ˈlɪniər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lin-ee-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective 1.of, consisting of, or using lines: linear design. 2.pertaining to or represented by lines: linear dimensions. 3.extended or arranged in a line: a linear series. 4.involving measurement in one dimension only; pertaining to length: linear measure.

[fugaziuk]

sorry guys - but shouldn't the man who unifies the wbc,wba,wbo and ibf belts be considered the undisputed champ?? and as far as i can see if cotto beats toni then he should face crlos and then pbf?

[Galaxy]

If Cotto beats Margarito I must in following my theory recognize Cotto as the man at 147 why? Because look who he has beat from that list.

2) Shane Mosley
3) Carlos Quintana
5) Antonio Margarito (with the assumption that he wins in this scenario)
6) Zab Judah

As opposed to Floyd

6) Zab Judah

I definately see where you are coming from, and I would rather not strip away a title from someone, but if there are no credible defenses made, I have a hard time recognizing someone as the champ.

Out of Cotto's opponents none of them were champion. I'm sure a proud warrior such as Cotto would rather win his championship in the ring than have it handed to him.

Benny Leonard made just 6 defenses in 8 years, stripping is not the answer it just adds to the problem!

Well Quintana became a Champion. and now he is fighting a champion.

realistically do any of you see the Baldomir that beat Judah beating Cotto or MArgarito?

Sorry bro but thats my entire point, what the sport needs is one recognized champion in each division. Quintana was a belt holder, Floyd was the champion!

You said in your previous post that you recognize Mayweather as the linear champion but then go onto say that Quintana is a champion, add in Cotto & Margarito & thats 4 guys you recognize as champion... WHAT A MESS!!!

Floyd is the champion at 147 based on the fact he beat the man who beat the man & so forth. Until he loses his championship either in the ring or vacates its as simple as that in my eyes!

Why complicate things?