want to test a little theory

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Three words ROY JONES JR.

Too easy to nitpick and criticize his resume.

Fighters of the past are harder because they were fighting so frequently and often against quality opposition.

Mmmm, good point.

[Mr140]

Alright my favorite fighter is and always will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Alright here are the highlights to his career he was a champion WW, LMW, MW, SMW and LHW and also his best wins as Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler he was the top dog out of all of them only one beat them all. He was also in one of the toughest eras of boxing so go ahead and pick away.

[hitmanhatton]

Alright my favorite fighter is and always will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Alright here are the highlights to his career he was a champion WW, LMW, MW, SMW and LHW and also his best wins as Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler he was the top dog out of all of them only one beat them all. He was also in one of the toughest eras of boxing so go ahead and pick away.

ok all ican really say to that is

1) fought a very stupid fight in terms of tactics in the first duran fight
2) Hagler win is very much debatable along with the draw in the second Hearns fight
3) went on too long and ruined his own legacy
4) seemed to shy away from a mega fight with Aaron Pryor

[Mr140]

Well all i can say to that is Duran fight yea was stupid could of beat him like he did the other times. He was on a long layoff and he was moving up in weight against Hagler. Hearns the next time around he was old and for Pryor i dont buy the ducking thing because he fought Hearns who ruined his eye and i think a harder fight then Pryor. Well all i go to say good job good point on my favorite fighter Suager Ray Leonard andi was just trying to nit pick your pick but it just wanted to see what you thought of it.

[Scrap]

Boxed Thomas Hearns instead what a copout Interestly Charles by 49 was diagnosed with a form of M S which eventually He died from, a Fantastic Warrior He had good wins in 41 when He was 19, some Fighter

[Thread Stealer]

Alright my favorite fighter is and always will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Alright here are the highlights to his career he was a champion WW, LMW, MW, SMW and LHW and also his best wins as Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler he was the top dog out of all of them only one beat them all. He was also in one of the toughest eras of boxing so go ahead and pick away.

Here's my attempt at nit-picking.

Wilfred Benitez trained just 5 days for the Leonard fight, less than his usual 8 days of training, and chased women 4 days a week during his "camp", rather than his usual 3 days a week. He was also dating Ray's sister.

Roberto Duran peaked two divisions lower, and won clearly. Leonard gave Duran an immediate rematch, knowing Duran would balloon in weight and party, and Duran was weakened for the rematch. Still, Duran was competitive before quitting.

Tommy Hearns was two pounds under 147, perhaps overtrained, and who knows if Leonard could've gotten to Hearns if the fight were scheduled for 12 rounds, like today's rules?

Ayub Kalule was untested.

Leonard waited until he had seen that Marvin Hagler had slowed, and even then, it was a controversial decision. He made Donny Lalonde shrink down from his natural weight so he could fight for two divisional titles, and only rematched Hearns because Tommy appeared to be a shot fighter.

Leonard fought sporadically from 1982-on, never fighting the likes of Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, etc..

[Thread Stealer]

Well all i can say to that is Duran fight yea was stupid could of beat him like he did the other times. He was on a long layoff and he was moving up in weight against Hagler. Hearns the next time around he was old and for Pryor i dont buy the ducking thing because he fought Hearns who ruined his eye and i think a harder fight then Pryor. Well all i go to say good job good point on my favorite fighter Suager Ray Leonard andi was just trying to nit pick your pick but it just wanted to see what you thought of it.

I NEVER bought the Pryor ducking thing and have grown to dislike Legendary Nights (a series I very much enjoyed when it came out) because of things I've read such as "Leonard was scared of Pryor, didn't you watch the documentary?").

But this is a thread about nitpicking resumes and achievements, so it's fair game.

[ICB]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

I wouldn't say Iran Barkley was overrated, he done very well against Sumbu Kalambay and Michael Nunn who were both in there prime. Those fights alone showed he could compete at world class.

[Mr140]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

[Mr140]

Also to come back form your nit pick all i got to say. Is that Hagler at prime was at higher weight then Leonard was so they would not of fought regardless pluse Leonards eye was jacked. Hagler may have been prime but neither was Leonard and he was 13 pounds above his prime weight. If he would of boxed Duran first time he would of won easily i feel. Also Leonard was still pretty young and green i think against the champ and he was countering the counter puncher and he knocked him down with a jab.

[ICB]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

It all started with Leonard moving up a weightclass in the Amateurs to avoid Pryor, Leonard also got whooped few times in sparring by Pryor, and Pryor also called him out at a press conference but Leonard didn't want to know, hence why some people believe Leonard avoided Pryor.

[Thread Stealer]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

HBO's Legendary Nights showed Pryor challege Leonard at a press conference, and Leonard never fought Pryor.

Butch Lewis was talking about how Leonard supposedly moved up a weight division in the amateurs to avoid Pryor and was handled by him in sparring.

Who doesn't challenge the big names? When does a welterweight champ have an obligation to fight the junior welterweight champ? Leonard had bigger challenges against established fighters in his own division. Of course money played a role in them being bigger names than Pryor, but they were established fighters in Leonard's division, unlike Pryor.

If Pryor did some work at welterweight, then the claim would be much stronger. But Pryor was best suited for divisions below 147.

[RozzySean]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

I wouldn't say Iran Barkley was overrated, he done very well against Sumbu Kalambay and Michael Nunn who were both in there prime. Those fights alone showed he could compete at world class.

I was trashing Barkley to diminish Duran's win over him. Keeping with that theme, he was competitive with Kalambay and Nunn, but he lost. He got KTFO by Benn. James Toney made him look like an amateur.

OK, in real life, I don't think Barkley was overrated and in real life, Duran is one of my favorite fighters and I think that weak LW division or not, you could put Duran in with any LW he would have a good chance to come out on top, Mosley and Benny Leonard included.

The point of the thread is to take a guy who is recognized universally as an ATG and make a case against him. Old Duran's win over Barkley was one of his most compelling performances. Barkley gave a great fight to a Kalembay during Kalembay's peak. But to play devil's advocate, you could say that every time Iran Barkely stepped up, other than Hearns, he fell short, including to a way past it Duran.

[boozeboxer]

I don;t blame him for avoiding Pryor. That guy had the instinct to kill.

[Spicoli]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

I wouldn't say Iran Barkley was overrated, he done very well against Sumbu Kalambay and Michael Nunn who were both in there prime. Those fights alone showed he could compete at world class.

I was trashing Barkley to diminish Duran's win over him. Keeping with that theme, he was competitive with Kalambay and Nunn, but he lost. He got KTFO by Benn. James Toney made him look like an amateur.

OK, in real life, I don't think Barkley was overrated and in real life, Duran is one of my favorite fighters and I think that weak LW division or not, you could put Duran in with any LW he would have a good chance to come out on top, Mosley and Benny Leonard included.

The point of the thread is to take a guy who is recognized universally as an ATG and make a case against him. Old Duran's win over Barkley was one of his most compelling performances. Barkley gave a great fight to a Kalembay during Kalembay's peak. But to play devil's advocate, you could say that every time Iran Barkely stepped up, other than Hearns, he fell short, including to a way past it Duran.

In hindsight I have to agree but not too many guys can say 'other than Hearns' on they're resumes . Barkley is a mainstay although just as hot as he was cold in some spots.He had such intensity and bad guy persona inside the ring but when outside in interviews and HOF ceremony type stuff,he comes across as a pretty cool dude.He was predictable but had some good scraps ......Casteneda,Benn & Olajide stand out.

I'll will always thank him for Van Horn mugging,that was hilarious. never have seen a father in such a hurry to get his sons arse kicked