Yes or No Poll regarding Catchweights

[JT Rock]

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique'

Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

[Bilbo's Mom]

The Manny Pacquiaos aren't really that rare in my opinion. We tend to have a few in every decade of the sport. Roy Jones started his career at 154 and then went on to win every title in his division including one of the alphabet HW titles. Oscar won titles starting at 130 all the way to 160. Floyd won titles at 130 all the way to 154. Duran won titles as a LW all the way to middleweight.

Pacman has a good career, but nothing unique.

How many former Flyweight world champions, have gone on to compete at Welterweight ? i would say that is pretty rare because i can't think of a single boxer that has done that, that is incredible and im just glad im in this era to appreciate it.

Didnt SRR start at Welter and below and was competing at 175? doing quite well until he wilted in the heat

No. He was a briliant superb welterweight, a very good middleweight, although he lost his belt 4 times so hardly unbeatable and was 0-1 as light heavyweight suffering a TKO, why is irelevent, he still quit on his stool and lost by knockout.

And Sugar Ray is considered the best of all times, a pretty significant person to compare Pac too, he mixes in high company according to you to that's nice to see

[Bilbo's Mom]

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique'

Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

There's a big difference in being able to put on 35lbs and through weight training and slowing metabolism and then being able to compete and dominate against guys who are naturally that size, surely you know that as well as me.

I'm a big fan of Floyd JT you know but he's right to get accused of cherry picking to an extent because of several reasons.

Firstly he's arguably the most arrogant man on the planet, the self proclaimed greatest of all time. When you hold your self in such high regard you raise the bar regarding how people will judge your claims. Manny on the other hand is incredibly humble.

Secondly Pacquiao has sought to fight the very best in each weight class and has destroyed prime p4p fighters, and he's for the most part done it in their own weight classes.

He boasts two wins over Barrera, two KO wins over Morales, a win over Marquez, a destruction of Ricky Hatton and a destruction of Oscar in which few felt he would win beforehand but now give him no credit at all. And he still wants to fight the best, Mosely, Cotto, Mayweather, all guys yet again bigger than himself.

Floyd meanwhile has carefully avoided the most significant challenges in most weight divisions or when he has fought them it has been on his terms.

Diego Coralles he forced to fight at superfeatherweight after Diego had moved up, so you could argue as weight drained as Oscar.

Castillo was a legit opponent although most think he lost the first time round.

Then he avoided all the best fighters in the other weight classe. He never went near Kosta Tyzsu, he didn't want anything to do with Shane Mosely, Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto.

He forced Hatton up to him to fight at 147.

He DID beat Oscar at 154, Oscars weight class and that imo is Floyd's best win, a great achievement to go up so much above his natural weight and defeat a legend. But he was willing to meet Oscar's demands for the millions and millions he made from the fight. Every other opponent must face Floyd on HIS terms.

Please note I don't criticise for Floyd for this, it's smart.

I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather

[Jody Lane]

I voted YES. But it should be a non-title.

i agree

Yeah if a champion has to come several pounds under his maximum allowed weight just to get a fight with someone like Pac, it should be a non title fight unless the champ agrees to it.Before the advent of all these weight classes, it wasn't unusual for someone like Henry Armstrong to weigh 142 for a welterweigh title fight. He was a natural 140 pounder but they didn't have that class then.

[TheDemolitionDan]

There should be no catchweights anymore, there are 17 divisions now, if you can't fight within the limit of one of these 17 then you shouldn't fight at all. I don't want to see Darchinyan and Klitschko fight at a "catchweight."

[LEGION]

There should be no catchweights anymore, there are 17 divisions now, if you can't fight within the limit of one of these 17 then you shouldn't fight at all. I don't want to see Darchinyan and Klitschko fight at a "catchweight."

Klit in 12

[JT Rock]

Manny has also started at 107 lbs and went on to win world titles at flyweight, bantamweight, S featherweight, Lightweight, junior welter and even ko'd a legend at welterweight but his career is 'good but not unique'

Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

There's a big difference in being able to put on 35lbs and through weight training and slowing metabolism and then being able to compete and dominate against guys who are naturally that size, surely you know that as well as me.

I'm a big fan of Floyd JT you know but he's right to get accused of cherry picking to an extent because of several reasons.

Firstly he's arguably the most arrogant man on the planet, the self proclaimed greatest of all time. When you hold your self in such high regard you raise the bar regarding how people will judge your claims. Manny on the other hand is incredibly humble.

Secondly Pacquiao has sought to fight the very best in each weight class and has destroyed prime p4p fighters, and he's for the most part done it in their own weight classes.

He boasts two wins over Barrera, two KO wins over Morales, a win over Marquez, a destruction of Ricky Hatton and a destruction of Oscar in which few felt he would win beforehand but now give him no credit at all. And he still wants to fight the best, Mosely, Cotto, Mayweather, all guys yet again bigger than himself.

Floyd meanwhile has carefully avoided the most significant challenges in most weight divisions or when he has fought them it has been on his terms.

Diego Coralles he forced to fight at superfeatherweight after Diego had moved up, so you could argue as weight drained as Oscar.

Castillo was a legit opponent although most think he lost the first time round.

Then he avoided all the best fighters in the other weight classe. He never went near Kosta Tyzsu, he didn't want anything to do with Shane Mosely, Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto.

He forced Hatton up to him to fight at 147.

He DID beat Oscar at 154, Oscars weight class and that imo is Floyd's best win, a great achievement to go up so much above his natural weight and defeat a legend. But he was willing to meet Oscar's demands for the millions and millions he made from the fight. Every other opponent must face Floyd on HIS terms.

Please note I don't criticise for Floyd for this, it's smart.

I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather

Thats my point Manny size is his size the fact that he turned pro 3-4 years earlier than most before complete physical maturity shows what really, dont you think a good percentage of guys currently at 140 gained 34lbs in 16 years?
The above bolded comment carries no relevance what so ever.

I'll gladly give reverence to the Floyd ducking argument if you could do me a favor and provide a timeline, complete with schedules and line up were those fights could have been made taking into consideration Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams previous engagements

To my knowledge Floyd made 2 challenges to Mosely in the past and he declined

Floyd declined Margarito(Who nobody knew at the time and was as marketable as the flu) in lieu of fighting the Ring recognized Welterweight champ.

Cotto was fighting Judah while Mayweather was fighting Delahoya.. Gee thats a no brainer finance wise.. I dare someone to argue that

Cotto was fighting Mosely, while Floyd was fighting Ricky Hatton in a fight that was one of the most talked about for 3 years on this forum and everyone wanted to see and speculated about. The fact that Floyd made another blockbuster payday.

Williams just started to catch steam 1-2 years ago and was still considered an untested prospect who was scheduled to fight Margarito 2 months after Floyd beat Oscar.

Then he retired after waging to huge blockbuster fights and promotions with gruling travel. Not to mention achieving cross over appeal. He rested and now he is back

Where is the duck?

[CGM]

...

I'm just saying that ask practically any unbiased fan who has the bigger balls between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather and not many are saying Mayweather

haha perhaps this should be moved to the Manny Pacquaio forum now.