is it possible for Mayweather to retire the greatest ever?

[El Kabong]

He COULD retire as the greatest of all time, but he could also fly a rocketship to the moon.

IMO Floyd has to fight and beat: Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosley, and Paul Williams to be the greatest...and maybe even Kelly Pavlik

[SEANIE]

ok then, lets just say he goes on to beat Mosely, Pac, Berto, Kahn ( if he keeps progressing) Williams, would that make him the greatest ever?

If not what would he have to do??

This thread should be called "Is it possible for Mayweather to retire"

He's a good boxer but not the gratest.

[jahmez]

It will be very hard indeed for any contemporary or future boxers to eclipse the greatness of the old masters partly thanks to the rise and rise of mass media phenomenons such as youtube. The rarity of vintage film can mystify the deeds of past champions. This may happen even more so when records are illustrated by supporter's eye witness accounts. Now one can easily analyse and criticise every punch a fighter has thrown while sitting on their ass and pressing a few buttons.

[Spicoli]

I'd go with no.One of the most naturally gifted...yeah.But not putting in all out against the primed best of his era.I get the impression that he's playing a bit of catchup right now.

[Rantcatrat]

The thing about he "should" have fought this guy or the other guy is that nobody will ever be satisfied with nobody. Even if Mayweather faced all the guys who are now on top and beat them, there will always be the typical "Oh, but wait, if he fought legendary X, he would have lost". Mayweather keeps showing how great he is so far, how many clear flaws can we name? Sure, some will argue he fought a small guy recently but he has also fought big guys. But still, big or small guys, he still shows how his defense is close to perfect. The last time I saw someone with a defense comparable to his is Pernell Whitaker but Floyd now only has the defense, he can punch.

Love him or hate him, he's a talented boxer in all areas.

Where there will always be the neighsayers who criticize every boxer's career. Think about the criticism on Calzaghe. He "should" have fought Chad Dawson etc. Mayweather deserves some criticism for his past choices in opponents. He chose Baldomir to fight at welterweight and he hasn't fought another welterweight since Baldomir. The criticism isn't new. Fortunately for Mayweather, he can prove the neighsayers wrong by fighting everyone. He has the chance. The Pacquiao fight is just for money. Let's be honest. We all know the outcome already. How about other fights where the outcome is less certain? Those are the fights he needs to take and win to merit high, high praise. Beat Paul Williams, beat shane mosley, and beat Cotto (after he beats Pacquiao), and then let's talk about where he places.

[Rantcatrat]

I'd go with no.One of the most naturally gifted...yeah.But not putting in all out against the primed best of his era.I get the impression that he's playing a bit of catchup right now.

And there is nothing wrong with that, right? I mean its never too late.

[Spicoli]

I'd go with no.One of the most naturally gifted...yeah.But not putting in all out against the primed best of his era.I get the impression that he's playing a bit of catchup right now.

And there is nothing wrong with that, right? I mean its never too late.

Not at all, indeed.But I think he cost himself much in the way of legacy when he opted out for two years off huge peaking win vs Hatton and not facing the cream of the crop.I just don't see him jumping right in and cleaning house.Good point about the Manny fight but I think the negotiations alone could take alot of time,and he's not getting any younger.

[killersheep]

It is possible, all he needs to do for me is beat PAC/Cotto winner and Mosley, to get considered, HOW he looks in victory will be as important to me as the "W" itself.

Talk of Williams and Pavlik is ridiculous. He would weight ~155 lbs on fight night with his opponent at ~175-180, add in the ridiculous reach advantages
and you have 3 times the advantages he had against JMM. The would both be absolutely incredible victories on par with David and Goliath. Perhaps we should include one of the Klitschkos in the mix just so there could be no doubt.

[HattonTheHammer]

greatest ever - no

The bandwagon journalists like to proclaim ali the greatest fighter of all time while the hardcore knowlegable boxing fans see this recognition in favour for the likes of leonard, robinson etc

No way floyd ever beats either of those 2 however highly i regard the man and strongly believe he is the greatest champion the sports had in a good 20 years!!

His legacy as an all time great is already cemented and i just cannot for the life of me seeing the man ever being beat!

[El Kabong]

It is possible, all he needs to do for me is beat PAC/Cotto winner and Mosley, to get considered, HOW he looks in victory will be as important to me as the "W" itself.

Talk of Williams and Pavlik is ridiculous. He would weight ~155 lbs on fight night with his opponent at ~175-180, add in the ridiculous reach advantages
and you have 3 times the advantages he had against JMM. The would both be absolutely incredible victories on par with David and Goliath. Perhaps we should include one of the Klitschkos in the mix just so there could be no doubt.

So you're saying it's impossible for anyone of Floyd's skill and stature to beat someone who is GOOD (if that) when he has to give up height, reach, power

Then the answer is obvious if he can't beat someone when he's at a disadvantage then he's not the greatest, he's not even close to the greatest.....especially if he never takes a chance.

Sugar Ray Robinson 5'11 ( a little taller than Floyd) started out at 135 and won titles at 147, 160, and 175 and that was before all of this Junior division bullcrap.

Sugar Ray Leonard 5'10 (just a smidge taller than Floyd) did about the same thing 147, 154, 160, and 175

Roberto Duran 5'7 (SMALLER THAN Floyd!!!) started out fighting at 119 he eventually went on to win the middleweight title!

Sure guys like Tommy Hearns had the frame to add on weight to take him all the way up to cruiserweight and Paul Williams has that frame, but the thing is Ray Leonard didn't duck Tommy Hearns, he knew Tommy was big and bad and would look impressive on his record....Floyd has never done that, sure Marquez's name looks impressive but it's not like come fight night Floyd was in any real danger, he's rarely been in danger

[JazMerkin]

It is possible, all he needs to do for me is beat PAC/Cotto winner and Mosley, to get considered, HOW he looks in victory will be as important to me as the "W" itself.

Talk of Williams and Pavlik is ridiculous. He would weight ~155 lbs on fight night with his opponent at ~175-180, add in the ridiculous reach advantages
and you have 3 times the advantages he had against JMM. The would both be absolutely incredible victories on par with David and Goliath. Perhaps we should include one of the Klitschkos in the mix just so there could be no doubt.

So you're saying it's impossible for anyone of Floyd's skill and stature to beat someone who is GOOD (if that) when he has to give up height, reach, power

Then the answer is obvious if he can't beat someone when he's at a disadvantage then he's not the greatest, he's not even close to the greatest.....especially if he never takes a chance.

Sugar Ray Robinson 5'11 ( a little taller than Floyd) started out at 135 and won titles at 147, 160, and 175 and that was before all of this Junior division bullcrap.

Sugar Ray Leonard 5'10 (just a smidge taller than Floyd) did about the same thing 147, 154, 160, and 175

Roberto Duran 5'7 (SMALLER THAN Floyd!!!) started out fighting at 119 he eventually went on to win the middleweight title!

Sure guys like Tommy Hearns had the frame to add on weight to take him all the way up to cruiserweight and Paul Williams has that frame, but the thing is Ray Leonard didn't duck Tommy Hearns, he knew Tommy was big and bad and would look impressive on his record....Floyd has never done that, sure Marquez's name looks impressive but it's not like come fight night Floyd was in any real danger, he's rarely been in danger

Robinson did not win a world title at 175. Leonard did not win one at 154 either.

As for the Leonard comparisom, it's interesting that in retrospect his legacy has been re-assessed. The only 2 wins he was really given complete respect for at the time were over Benitez & Hearns. The Lalonde win for the SMW & LHW titles were both heavily criticized because he 'drained' Lalonde well below his usual limit. Not to mention the criticisms over his comeback against Hagler or his rematch with Duran. I don't agree with these, but in 25 years I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Mayweather's career, where current criticisms will become overlooked.

As for the emboldened part, I think that is one of the key contemporary criticisms of any boxer who doesn't have to struggle. I remember an article in The Ring saying that boxing fans have an attitude of 'fight the bigger man, the faster man, the stronger man. Let us know your limits where you struggle so we are sated'. I think this is true of fans in every area, & its only with retrospect we can see how excellent fighters are. We've seen this Lennox Lewis & I reckon we will see the same with Mayweather & the Klitschkos.

On the subject if he beat Mosley & the Pac/Cotto winner, I would rank him in the Top 5 & certainly up for discussion, although SRR would still edge it for me. However, if he beat a Williams/Pavlik, then I think he would be #1. There's a long way to go before that can seriously be thought about though.

[El Kabong]

OK I was wrong on Robinson but right on Leonard....Ray Leonard beat Ayube Kalule for the WBA Light Middle Weight title. Ray Leonard also won a title at 168 as well as 175.

I'm sorry Jaz, but Floyd just hasn't done enough to even be in the freaking conversation as the Greatest of All-Time. EVERYBODY in that discussion fought legitimate THREATS. Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong, Duran, Pep, and Hearns fought anyone and everyone.

Has Floyd ever unified? NO....Has Floyd fought the most dangerous fighters of his era? NO or yes but outside of their normal weight classes.

[Dizaster]

I've just realised how dissapointing and misleading it is for a fighter to actually RETIRE with a 0 loss record.... Now I think about it, to me, that means that fighter never reached their limit.. We never saw them pushed to the end of their capabilities and come up short... If Floyd starting taking fights now that there was a big risk of putting a 1 on his loss record, then that would be going some ways towards his greatness..

Show you've got something at 154.. LOOK for fights that test the shit out of you...

Did he really come back thinking Marquez was going to be a big challenge? Is a "challenge" even an im for the rest of his career?

Lyle is mirroring my thoughts 100%... Mayweather has got to risk his nuts. He's gotta take fights where he's not favourite... He's got to take fights where all odd's are against him...


Not that Pac vs ODLH ended up being any risk to Pac at all, but to MANY people, he was taking a big risk with that fight.. It seemed like he would be totally outsized, outclassed etc....

Floyd NNNNNNEEEEDDDDSSSS fights like that on his record and on him ambition to be classed in true greatness..

If right now he was chasing a fight will Williams at 154, that would be something.... And the fact fighters of past have made those moves in their career then Floyd has to do the same to be even considered in the same class as them....


He's got the skills to probably even conquer such tasks, but the greatest of all time's are remembered for what they acheived,,,,,, and then their are the guys who "coulda been"... Floyd may just be remembered as a coulda been that had the skills, but settled for money and a perfectly intact win loss record instead...


And this is taking nothing away from what Floyd has done and won so far, which is brilliant for any fighter... Amazing even... But expanding the picture into the G.O.A.T. frame, he should be taking the whole of boxing from 147 UPWARDS by the balls until he's reached his absolute limit, and pushed as far past that as possible...

And why the hell isn't he doing that!!!!! He's proved himself where he is.... He's kept his zero... Why not just fucking go for it...




because he's "money" mayweather.... The thing that our society teaches us is the pinacle of acheivement and pursuit.. money... but boxers aren't remembered for how much money they made.. they are remembered for heart, resiliance, balls, fearlessness, acheivement...

Floyd's proved he's got half of what it takes to be an all time great, unforutnately that is enough to make him the money he wants to make..... So he doesn't have much ambition for more..

[HattonTheHammer]

I've just realised how dissapointing and misleading it is for a fighter to actually RETIRE with a 0 loss record.... Now I think about it, to me, that means that fighter never reached their limit.. We never saw them pushed to the end of their capabilities and come up short... If Floyd starting taking fights now that there was a big risk of putting a 1 on his loss record, then that would be going some ways towards his greatness..

Show you've got something at 154.. LOOK for fights that test the shit out of you...

Did he really come back thinking Marquez was going to be a big challenge? Is a "challenge" even an im for the rest of his career?

Lyle is mirroring my thoughts 100%... Mayweather has got to risk his nuts. He's gotta take fights where he's not favourite... He's got to take fights where all odd's are against him...


Not that Pac vs ODLH ended up being any risk to Pac at all, but to MANY people, he was taking a big risk with that fight.. It seemed like he would be totally outsized, outclassed etc....

Floyd NNNNNNEEEEDDDDSSSS fights like that on his record and on him ambition to be classed in true greatness..

If right now he was chasing a fight will Williams at 154, that would be something.... And the fact fighters of past have made those moves in their career then Floyd has to do the same to be even considered in the same class as them....


He's got the skills to probably even conquer such tasks, but the greatest of all time's are remembered for what they acheived,,,,,, and then their are the guys who "coulda been"... Floyd may just be remembered as a coulda been that had the skills, but settled for money and a perfectly intact win loss record instead...


And this is taking nothing away from what Floyd has done and won so far, which is brilliant for any fighter... Amazing even... But expanding the picture into the G.O.A.T. frame, he should be taking the whole of boxing from 147 UPWARDS by the balls until he's reached his absolute limit, and pushed as far past that as possible...

And why the hell isn't he doing that!!!!! He's proved himself where he is.... He's kept his zero... Why not just fucking go for it...




because he's "money" mayweather.... The thing that our society teaches us is the pinacle of acheivement and pursuit.. money... but boxers aren't remembered for how much money they made.. they are remembered for heart, resiliance, balls, fearlessness, acheivement...

Floyd's proved he's got half of what it takes to be an all time great, unforutnately that is enough to make him the money he wants to make..... So he doesn't have much ambition for more..

understand what your saying

pac actually had the balls to get back in with marquez after that 1st fight when he could easily of won a world title at 130 fighting anyone else. At the same time though floyd did similar with castillo and his victory 2nd time around was far more resounding than pac-marquez which still to this day is considered 2 succesive draws.

Floyd cant help beating good opponents with ease. Lets be completely honest here it took a lot of balls to fight marquez one of the most underrated fighters in world boxing and nobody but nobody has been able to outwork juan like floyd did.

Ultimately his legacys shortcoming may be his failure to extend himself further in fights and put fighters like marquez away instead of taking decisions. But with floyds style of fighting why on earth would he bother attempting to KO pacquiao, cotto or mosley when he could conceivably just let his superior footwork do the talking and cruise past all 3 on points!!

To be a great champion you have to be a great fighter. Floyds an ultra skilled boxer but has he really got that duran/leonard esque ability to go toe to toe with the very best and knock them out??

[Dizaster]

I've just realised how dissapointing and misleading it is for a fighter to actually RETIRE with a 0 loss record.... Now I think about it, to me, that means that fighter never reached their limit.. We never saw them pushed to the end of their capabilities and come up short... If Floyd starting taking fights now that there was a big risk of putting a 1 on his loss record, then that would be going some ways towards his greatness..

Show you've got something at 154.. LOOK for fights that test the shit out of you...

Did he really come back thinking Marquez was going to be a big challenge? Is a "challenge" even an im for the rest of his career?

Lyle is mirroring my thoughts 100%... Mayweather has got to risk his nuts. He's gotta take fights where he's not favourite... He's got to take fights where all odd's are against him...


Not that Pac vs ODLH ended up being any risk to Pac at all, but to MANY people, he was taking a big risk with that fight.. It seemed like he would be totally outsized, outclassed etc....

Floyd NNNNNNEEEEDDDDSSSS fights like that on his record and on him ambition to be classed in true greatness..

If right now he was chasing a fight will Williams at 154, that would be something.... And the fact fighters of past have made those moves in their career then Floyd has to do the same to be even considered in the same class as them....


He's got the skills to probably even conquer such tasks, but the greatest of all time's are remembered for what they acheived,,,,,, and then their are the guys who "coulda been"... Floyd may just be remembered as a coulda been that had the skills, but settled for money and a perfectly intact win loss record instead...


And this is taking nothing away from what Floyd has done and won so far, which is brilliant for any fighter... Amazing even... But expanding the picture into the G.O.A.T. frame, he should be taking the whole of boxing from 147 UPWARDS by the balls until he's reached his absolute limit, and pushed as far past that as possible...

And why the hell isn't he doing that!!!!! He's proved himself where he is.... He's kept his zero... Why not just fucking go for it...




because he's "money" mayweather.... The thing that our society teaches us is the pinacle of acheivement and pursuit.. money... but boxers aren't remembered for how much money they made.. they are remembered for heart, resiliance, balls, fearlessness, acheivement...

Floyd's proved he's got half of what it takes to be an all time great, unforutnately that is enough to make him the money he wants to make..... So he doesn't have much ambition for more..

understand what your saying

pac actually had the balls to get back in with marquez after that 1st fight when he could easily of won a world title at 130 fighting anyone else. At the same time though floyd did similar with castillo and his victory 2nd time around was far more resounding than pac-marquez which still to this day is considered 2 succesive draws.

Floyd cant help beating good opponents with ease. Lets be completely honest here it took a lot of balls to fight marquez one of the most underrated fighters in world boxing and nobody but nobody has been able to outwork juan like floyd did.

Ultimately his legacys shortcoming may be his failure to extend himself further in fights and put fighters like marquez away instead of taking decisions. But with floyds style of fighting why on earth would he bother attempting to KO pacquiao, cotto or mosley when he could conceivably just let his superior footwork do the talking and cruise past all 3 on points!!

To be a great champion you have to be a great fighter. Floyds an ultra skilled boxer but has he really got that duran/leonard esque ability to go toe to toe with the very best and knock them out??

I get what your saying.. I'd love to see Floyd step up and knock people out.. But at the same time, i'd be equally happy to see him outbox opponents at higher weights....
You used the key words "Extend himself".. The great boxers of all times have extended themselves beyond anyone else.. that is what made them great in my opinion...


And your right, floyd can't help beating the great fighters he has, with the ease he has. but at the same time, if he doesn't start extending himself, that is entirely his fault... Right now I think he's taking comfortable fights.. I mean, as comfortable as they can be at the peak of boxing, but comfortable none the less compared to fights that could be seriously adding big things to his legacy..

He's not getting younger.. I think in the next 2 years, he has to have at least one fight that really makes a statement... A statement that say, "I want to claim the crown of greatest boxer of the last 30 years, and here is the fight that is going to prove it"