Worst Boxing Robberies. Fact.

[Kirkland Laing]

lol, I have no ulterior motive.

I would love for some definitive proof to back up this claim about robberies in Europe. Or at least some history to find out where this idea originated from.

I can remember Harry Carpenter and/or Reg Gutteridge saying something like "the old saying that you need a knockout to get a draw in Italy." It just fits in nicely with the general Italian stereotype of everything being corrupt (although that's an accurate stereotype ). I'm not sure how many fights from Italy the BBC and ITV covered in the post-war years but I don't think it was too many, maybe that "old saying" comes from boxers and cornermen who fought out there, lost close decisions and maybe thought they'd done better than they had done and they're not exactly unbiased observers. There probably were one or two outright robberies in Italy over the years but I'm sure close decisions in Italy and Germany go roughly the same way they do in Britain and America, and that all countries are pretty similar in this regard.

That's exactly what I've been thinking.

Recently Colin Lynes lost in a European title shot to M'baye (non-Televised here). The word coming back was Lynes had been robbed, he said this himself on Steve Bunces radio show. And yet reports from neutrals that watched the fight said he lost a boring fight fair and square.

I think this probably happened numerous times in the past.

I just found a shit copy of Benn vs. Galvano 1 and the fight is a few seconds old before Reg says "there's no point in Benn trying to box this guy..... as you've probably heard the old saying about knock them out to draw is fairly true, there's only ever been two British fighters who won on points in Italy and they were both flyweights."

[Fenster]

I can remember Harry Carpenter and/or Reg Gutteridge saying something like "the old saying that you need a knockout to get a draw in Italy." It just fits in nicely with the general Italian stereotype of everything being corrupt (although that's an accurate stereotype ). I'm not sure how many fights from Italy the BBC and ITV covered in the post-war years but I don't think it was too many, maybe that "old saying" comes from boxers and cornermen who fought out there, lost close decisions and maybe thought they'd done better than they had done and they're not exactly unbiased observers. There probably were one or two outright robberies in Italy over the years but I'm sure close decisions in Italy and Germany go roughly the same way they do in Britain and America, and that all countries are pretty similar in this regard.

That's exactly what I've been thinking.

Recently Colin Lynes lost in a European title shot to M'baye (non-Televised here). The word coming back was Lynes had been robbed, he said this himself on Steve Bunces radio show. And yet reports from neutrals that watched the fight said he lost a boring fight fair and square.

I think this probably happened numerous times in the past.

I just found a shit copy of Benn vs. Galvano 1 and the fight is a few seconds old before Reg says "there's no point in Benn trying to box this guy..... as you've probably heard the old saying about knock them out to draw is fairly true, there's only ever been two British fighters who won on points in Italy and they were both flyweights."

I mentioned this earlier as a fight where the Brit got the decision because they made out like Benn hadn't a hope in hells of getting it on points.

When the cuts happen, Reg is waffling about the Italians want the fight stopped so it can go to the cards, right?

[Kirkland Laing]

That's exactly what I've been thinking.

Recently Colin Lynes lost in a European title shot to M'baye (non-Televised here). The word coming back was Lynes had been robbed, he said this himself on Steve Bunces radio show. And yet reports from neutrals that watched the fight said he lost a boring fight fair and square.

I think this probably happened numerous times in the past.

I just found a shit copy of Benn vs. Galvano 1 and the fight is a few seconds old before Reg says "there's no point in Benn trying to box this guy..... as you've probably heard the old saying about knock them out to draw is fairly true, there's only ever been two British fighters who won on points in Italy and they were both flyweights."

I mentioned this earlier as a fight where the Brit got the decision because they made out like Benn hadn't a hope in hells of getting it on points.

When the cuts happen, Reg is waffling about the Italians want the fight stopped so it can go to the cards, right?

Yep.

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

There it is, quick and dirty 160 mb download.

[Fenster]

I just found a shit copy of Benn vs. Galvano 1 and the fight is a few seconds old before Reg says "there's no point in Benn trying to box this guy..... as you've probably heard the old saying about knock them out to draw is fairly true, there's only ever been two British fighters who won on points in Italy and they were both flyweights."

I mentioned this earlier as a fight where the Brit got the decision because they made out like Benn hadn't a hope in hells of getting it on points.

When the cuts happen, Reg is waffling about the Italians want the fight stopped so it can go to the cards, right?

Yep.

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

There it is, quick and dirty 160 mb download.

Nice one. Pretty much as I remember it.

Jim - "The good thing about fighting in Italy is, you don't have to worry about piling up points because you're not gonna get the verdict"

[johnmaff36]

Brodie-Jorrin - ENG (The American was favoured in the Brits backyard. Shocking)

Agreed that was one shocking decision, really felt for Brodie that night !

Also the classic 1st fight of Mayweather Castillo !

Far from a robbery. It was a close fight that was probably split over a round or two. The scorecards were too wide, but many still feel Mayweather did enough. It's like calling Calzaghe-Hopkins a robbery, it wasn't it was a close fight that just went Calzaghe's way, even if the scorecards were too wide (I had Hopkins edging it btw).

In terms of Italy, there was Vito Antuofermo's controversial draw with Marvin Hagler in... Las Vegas

funnily enough you mention hagler. Hagler was very wary of any english involvement in his fights after the way he was disgracefully treated by the crowd after he beat alan minter at Wembley. When the judges were announced for his fight with Leonard, Hagler strongly opposed the appointment of the english judge (whose name escapes me), and insisted on a different judge. The irony of it all is that the new judge scored the fight for Leonard whereas the english judge, when pressed on the matter, said he scored the fight for Hagler. Quite a lot of people thought he won it although personally i gave it to Leonard

[brucelee]

Every boxing fight in Thailand is a robbery.

[JazMerkin]

Agreed that was one shocking decision, really felt for Brodie that night !

Also the classic 1st fight of Mayweather Castillo !

Far from a robbery. It was a close fight that was probably split over a round or two. The scorecards were too wide, but many still feel Mayweather did enough. It's like calling Calzaghe-Hopkins a robbery, it wasn't it was a close fight that just went Calzaghe's way, even if the scorecards were too wide (I had Hopkins edging it btw).

In terms of Italy, there was Vito Antuofermo's controversial draw with Marvin Hagler in... Las Vegas

funnily enough you mention hagler. Hagler was very wary of any english involvement in his fights after the way he was disgracefully treated by the crowd after he beat alan minter at Wembley. When the judges were announced for his fight with Leonard, Hagler strongly opposed the appointment of the english judge (whose name escapes me), and insisted on a different judge. The irony of it all is that the new judge scored the fight for Leonard whereas the english judge, when pressed on the matter, said he scored the fight for Hagler. Quite a lot of people thought he won it although personally i gave it to Leonard

Yeah, I had that for Leonard for narrowly, wouldn't consider it a robbery as it was close.

But yeah I know about that story about Hagler. Can't really blame him, Alan Minter used to have a lot of support within a racist group called the National Front & I think the way Minter played up to it with the 'I'll never lose to a black man' comment really fucked himself up. To be honest what they did in the stadium was child's play to what they did around the country week in & out. It's a shame Hagler couldn't beat every one of them up himself.

[BigLuke]

Has anyone mentioned Diaz vs Pauli Malignaggi. Highway robbery even though I hate that guy. Houston Texas, USA

Dirrell Froch / UK

[Violent Demise]

Brodie-Jorrin - ENG (The American was favoured in the Brits backyard. Shocking)

Agreed that was one shocking decision, really felt for Brodie that night !

Also the classic 1st fight of Mayweather Castillo !

The cards were a little wide for Brodie-Jorrin. But that shiit was no robbery. It was a close fight. Brodie didn't exactly do himself any favors by getting his ass dropped late in the fight

[Fatsofatsoman]

Brodie-Jorrin - ENG (The American was favoured in the Brits backyard. Shocking)

That was going to be my pick - I was devastated watching that, I liked Brodie alot.

[johnmaff36]

Maybe I should spell it out

I dont care what it is, the judges, the promoters, the ref etc.. Its dodgy and you know it.. Boxing is a corrupt business no matter where, but it sucks that when a fighter goes to europe he knows he needs a KO just to earn a draw.

You were given examples but to categorize every single fight is going to be difficult, and I'll bet you a million bucks that the stigma started decades before this forum was created.. So its not like a few of us yanks around here started a whisper campaign about it and now its full fire.

This is not just about "yanks" believing you can't get a fair game in Europe.

From when I was a kid it's been common knowledge that "Brits can't get a decision in Germany/Italy".. it's still commonly said by fans, Journos and TV pundits. Froch has just said he refuses to fight Abraham in Germany because of dodgy decisions.

I want some evidence to back this claim up. I've shown in recent times Brits have got decisions in "world" title fights over there.

So far nobody has named any shocking robberies of Ameican's that would have been out of the norm in the USA.

I too think this idea stems from decades ago. But it might also be some unfounded prejudice nonsense that stuck over decades from one or two dodgy decisions that doesn't hold much weight anymore. So if we don't know where the belief originates from and can't back it up with our own evidence then we're being pretty ignorant, no?

The past 70 world title fights in Germany has had the 'outsider' win by decision just 3 times. Altogether its 11 wins but 8 were KOs

[Drago]

Ottke Reid Gemany (first one that i thought of when saw thread title)

[Beanflicker]

JCC/Whitaker and Roy Jones/Park Si Hung. Those were the most disgusting ones.

[Drago]

JCC/Whitaker and Roy Jones/Park Si Hung. Those were the most disgusting ones.

never seen JCC/Whitaker

[ICB]

Pernell Whitaker vs Jose Luis Ramirez 1 France
Pernell Whitaker vs Julio Cesar Chavez USA
Ken Norton vs Muhammad Ali 3 USA
Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes 2 USA
Joe Louis vs Jersey Joe Walcott 1 USA
Sugar Ray Leonard vs Tommy Hearns 2 USA
Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 1 USA
John Ruiz vs Evander Holyfield 1 USA
George Foreman vs Shannon Briggs USA
Oscar De La Hoya vs Felix Sturm USA
Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke Germany
Joel Casamayor vs Santa Cruz USA
James Toney vs Dave Tiberi USA
James Toney vs Montel Griffin 2 USA
Vernon Forrest vs Ike Quartey USA
Maurice Harris vs Larry Holmes USA
Shane Mosley vs Oscar De La Hoya 2 USA
Roy Jones Jr 1988 Seoul Olympics