After last nights fight does anyone doubt Bute and Ward are the best SMWTS in the wor

[JonnyFolds]

I just don't go with the obvious in this argument. You are asking if the two guys who don't have a loss are the best SMWs. I hope everyone has some say in what makes a fighter the best, what makes him undefeated, and what makes a champ (not a paper champ). Big difference between all of those.

The simple answer is NO. Even after this weekend's madness it's not widely apparent they are the best. Especially not Bute, if I am looking at his demolition of Miranda. That win says almost nothing to me. Miranda was probably a 15:1 dog.

You know what would make this tournament really really interesting Watching Green mop the floor with Ward. If you only waited until after the Green-Ward fight, then you could probably make a better case for Bute, but right now, not for both..

Right now, I'm just happy all these guys are swimming in the same pool, going to new territories, and digging deeper than they ever had to. All of these guys are great fighters. I knew leaving Bute out would just make people for want of a fight that can't happen. But, look on the bright side.. All these guys would have been filling their resumees with guys like Bute has.

[amat]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

No... No he didn't knock Bute the fuck out. In fact by IBF rules once his glove came off the canvas he had won the fight regardless of the refs slow count. Did Kessler KO Andrade in 4 rounds? No. Bute has fought the same level of opposition barring Calzaghe... Which Kessler lost. I agree that we'll find out for real once the Super Six ends but the satatement of him being knocked out of the top 8 SMWs in the world once it ends is fucking retarded.

Bute has never faced anyone as highly ranked or regarded as Froch or Ward so no chance does he have as good of competition as Kessler. No chance. I do think he is the 2nd best SMW in the world but Fenster is right in saying that he will not have a chance to prove it until at least after the first round.

Also people judge to much on a fighter's last performance, I would never count AA out here.

[amat]

Do people really think Green will mop the floor with Ward? The guy who lost to Miranda, the guy who means nothing in the division?

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

No... No he didn't knock Bute the fuck out. In fact by IBF rules once his glove came off the canvas he had won the fight regardless of the refs slow count. Did Kessler KO Andrade in 4 rounds? No. Bute has fought the same level of opposition barring Calzaghe... Which Kessler lost. I agree that we'll find out for real once the Super Six ends but the satatement of him being knocked out of the top 8 SMWs in the world once it ends is fucking retarded.

Bute has never faced anyone as highly ranked or regarded as Froch or Ward so no chance does he have as good of competition as Kessler. No chance. I do think he is the 2nd best SMW in the world but Fenster is right in saying that he will not have a chance to prove it until at least after the first round.

Also people judge to much on a fighter's last performance, I would never count AA out here.

I 'm talking about Kesslers level of Op prior to the Super 6 being as good as Bute's up to now.

[Kev]

Do people really think Green will mop the floor with Ward? The guy who lost to Miranda, the guy who means nothing in the division?

We called it bro right from the beginning, Ward is winning the whole thing.

He will have NO trouble with Alan Green whatseover. Green looked great in one fight, against Jaidon Codrington, every step up fight since then has been disappointing.

Against Miranda he was crap, against Tarvis Simms he was crap, against Rubin Williams he was crap.

He looks great when blowing away overmatched opponents, put anyone half decent in there with him and he's mediocre.

Ward will box rings around him and win by at least 5 rounds.

[ICB]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.


FACT

I fixed your post.

Well said and I completely agree.

[Kev]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

[amat]

Yup Ward is the star here the most intriguing fight of the tourney will be him and Dirrell imo and I'm sure plenty will be picking Dirrell. They will be wrong.

Green has a good right hand, but Ward is a complete fighter and if Green can't look impressive against Donnie McCrary, Emmit Linton, Edison Miranda, Rubin Williams or Tarvis Sims then I don't see why anyone would think he mops the floor with Ward. Watch any of those fights and you'll struggle to believe that guy is a top 10 fighter. He is so inconsistent that even if he did win this tournament format would be hell for him. He would lose his next fight in the most boring contest of the whole thing. Anyone picking Green should know more about him, this guy was talked up forever by Greg Leon and as Leon's voice got louder Green's performances got worse. The thing about the colon is so overblown anyways. He had enough of his colon to make the weight, he was in the gym for weeks prior, he obviously didn't think it would take to much out of him before the fight. It's one of those things where Green actually seems to get more credit for the loss and Miranda gets none for the win. Kind of crazy but this guy's best wins are over Jaidon Codrington (that must have been 4 or 5 years ago), Anthony Bonsante, Jerson Ravelo and Carlos De Leon Jr. Good luck with that guy mopping the floor with ANYONE in this tournament.

[ICB]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

So what ? how many times has a fighter been totally gone in the last round ?

How much longer could SRL have lasted vs Marvin Hagler ? how much longer could Larry Holmes have lasted vs Ken Norton ? how much longer could Thomas Hearns have lasted vs SRL in there 2nd fight ?

Your talking hypothetically and it means nothing in the end, because Lucian Bute showed great heart in getting up and surviving. And going by the IBF rules no rules were broken and he won legitmately.

You could also say Carl Froch was lucky to stop Jermain Taylor, after getting dominated for most of the fight, with only seconds left. But he won in the end so what does it matter ?

And Lucian Bute erased in doubt in a rematch, by sitting down on his punches more. And he destroyed Librado Andrade so IMO its over and done with.

You seem to hate Lucian Bute for some reason, which is fair enough and thats your choice. But he has beaten some solid tough opponents, not the best but there solid fighters, and he has a solid resume at the moment. While also being a world champion since 2007.

And it can only get better, atleast Lucian Bute hasn't been beaten handily in his last two fights.

Infact Carl Froch has lost atleast 28 rounds, in his last 4 bouts. Where as Lucian Bute has been destroying his opposition, Carl Froch is an overachiever. And Lucian Bute will prove you wrong and anyother doubters.

And by the way you agreed before about Lucian Bute winning legitmately. Yet now you constantly bring it up to discredit Lucian Bute, i don't get that at all.

If you don't like him thats fair enough, but don't change your mind on something. Just because you dislike Lucian Bute.

[thewhale]

Well Bute is not going to prove anything the next 2 years since he will be fighting bums.

Bute reminds me of the Kessler hype( I was a part of that as well, but you learn) you build up your fight at home let him KO a lot of bums, heck a shot Mads Larsen was last year close to a match against Bute but Larsen tried to get a fight with Kessler instead, but a fight Kessler didn´t want because Larsen is a bum.

I predict Bute will keep KO the sheeps before him, but lets see if he has the guts to travel outside his homefield and take on the top guys before they a on the way down. Heck if Kessler gets KO by Green I am sure Bute is ready to face him at that point....

Bute is way overrated

[Rantcatrat]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

At the end of the day, Kessler's biggest win was Froch this last weekend. Froch entered the tournament with the best resume. Other than Froch, none of Kessler's opponents are better than Bute's.

[Kev]

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

So what ? how many times has a fighter been totally gone in the last round ?

How much longer could SRL have lasted vs Marvin Hagler ? how much longer could Larry Holmes have lasted vs Ken Norton ? how much longer could Thomas Hearns have lasted vs SRL in there 2nd fight ?

Your talking hypothetically and it means nothing in the end, because Lucian Bute showed great heart in getting up and surviving. And going by the IBF rules no rules were broken and he won legitmately.

You could also say Carl Froch was lucky to stop Jermain Taylor, after getting dominated for most of the fight, with only seconds left. But he won in the end so what does it matter ?

And Lucian Bute erased in doubt in a rematch, by sitting down on his punches more. And he destroyed Librado Andrade so IMO its over and done with.

You seem to hate Lucian Bute for some reason, which is fair enough and thats your choice. But he has beaten some solid tough opponents, not the best but there solid fighters, and he has a solid resume at the moment. While also being a world champion since 2007.

And it can only get better, atleast Lucian Bute hasn't been beaten handily in his last two fights.

Infact Carl Froch has lost atleast 28 rounds, in his last 4 bouts. Where as Lucian Bute has been destroying his opposition, Carl Froch is an overachiever. And Lucian Bute will prove you wrong and anyother doubters.

And by the way you agreed before about Lucian Bute winning legitmately. Yet now you constantly bring it up to discredit Lucian Bute, i don't get that at all.

If you don't like him thats fair enough, but don't change your mind on something. Just because you dislike Lucian Bute.

I agree Bute won legitimately, but that doesn't change the fact that he was more done than Meldrick Taylor in his first fight with Chavez.

He was out on his feet, with nothing left whatsoever, say what you want about Carl but he's been in with 4 guys all better than Andrade in successive fights and has never been found wanting like that.

Bute wouldn't have lasted 12 rounds against Froch the way Kessler did, he would have keeled over and collapsed in the championship rounds.

I'm sure if they fight Bute will start well, win the early rounds whatever, but he won't last.

[Fenster]

[QUOTE=Rantcatrat;868330]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

At the end of the day, Kessler's biggest win was Froch this last weekend. Froch entered the tournament with the best resume. Other than Froch, none of Kessler's opponents are better than Bute's.

[DaxxKahn]

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

So what ? how many times has a fighter been totally gone in the last round ?

How much longer could SRL have lasted vs Marvin Hagler ? how much longer could Larry Holmes have lasted vs Ken Norton ? how much longer could Thomas Hearns have lasted vs SRL in there 2nd fight ?

Your talking hypothetically and it means nothing in the end, because Lucian Bute showed great heart in getting up and surviving. And going by the IBF rules no rules were broken and he won legitmately.

You could also say Carl Froch was lucky to stop Jermain Taylor, after getting dominated for most of the fight, with only seconds left. But he won in the end so what does it matter ?

And Lucian Bute erased in doubt in a rematch, by sitting down on his punches more. And he destroyed Librado Andrade so IMO its over and done with.

You seem to hate Lucian Bute for some reason, which is fair enough and thats your choice. But he has beaten some solid tough opponents, not the best but there solid fighters, and he has a solid resume at the moment. While also being a world champion since 2007.

And it can only get better, atleast Lucian Bute hasn't been beaten handily in his last two fights.

Infact Carl Froch has lost atleast 28 rounds, in his last 4 bouts. Where as Lucian Bute has been destroying his opposition, Carl Froch is an overachiever. And Lucian Bute will prove you wrong and anyother doubters.

And by the way you agreed before about Lucian Bute winning legitmately. Yet now you constantly bring it up to discredit Lucian Bute, i don't get that at all.

If you don't like him thats fair enough, but don't change your mind on something. Just because you dislike Lucian Bute.

I agree Bute won legitimately, but that doesn't change the fact that he was more done than Meldrick Taylor in his first fight with Chavez.

He was out on his feet, with nothing left whatsoever, say what you want about Carl but he's been in with 4 guys all better than Andrade in successive fights and has never been found wanting like that.

Bute wouldn't have lasted 12 rounds against Froch the way Kessler did, he would have keeled over and collapsed in the championship rounds.

I'm sure if they fight Bute will start well, win the early rounds whatever, but he won't last.

I think people are being too judgemental on him because of the 1st Andrade fight...Countless top fighters have had a moment of just about defeated by a contender...Shit Ali one of the top 5 P4P fighters of all time was Floored by Cooper...Didn't Wepner put Ali down during Ali's iron jaw stage?..

Andrade is a talented B fighter who comes up just short of being top tier due to speed....He certainly has the ability to beat any of the other fighters including Bute on any given night you can not have a lax fight with him....Until he was KO'd by Bute I would have dared any fighter to stand toe to toe and brawl with him...He is like chopping wood and the tree is HUGE.....

We will have top wait for the S6 to finish before we get out answers I guess...I still want the Sig bet