Chavez Jr vs Cotto in the works?

[Pavlik]

I thought Chavez jr was campaigning as a middleweight, If that's the case they (Toprank) should have just made Cotto-Margarito 2.

[Chino]

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

[ElTerribleMorales]

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

[milmascaras1]

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

[ElTerribleMorales]

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

who's disputing Chavez Sr.'s accomplishments? no one, we're just saying that his sons are crap, and Whitaker wasn't a bigger guy, and wasn't younger yet he whipped that ass with ease

[milmascaras1]

nobody has said on this site lately that chavez sr. is underrated but it has been said before. and as far as your comments go:

in 1993 when they fought, chavez was 31 years old, whitaker was 29 years old.

chavez sr. was 87-0, whitaker was 32-1. question: who had more wear and tear considering whitaker was a defensive genius and a pure boxer?

whitaker started his career at 134 (Lightweight) while chavez started at 120. who was the bigger man again?

[Chino]

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

Actually, JCC Sr. was fighting for his first title until around his fight #45 or 50. I can remember the same comments back then "...he's fighting bunch of taxi drivers...he's no good...whenever he faces an elite fighter, he will lose..." and so on, still, he ended up being a Hall of Famer with lots of achievements.

You're right, Jr. has not faced top quality opposition but still lets not forget he's pretty much an amateur with around 40 fights facing guys with two or three times his experience. Duddy was his biggest challenge maybe but it doesn't mean much until he faces top quality opposition I suppose. If JCC Jr. ended up beating Cotto, I wonder if people would really give him credit for it or say that Cotto was damaged goods, not in his prime, old, etc.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Something people seem to ignore about JCC Jr. is the fact that he was thrown in with the lions since day #1. JCC Jr has no typical 100+ amateur career, no Jr. Olympics experience, no Olympic experience, no golden glove experience, etc. Nothing. He laced the gloves on and thrown in the ring with professionals. JCC Jr. is pretty much an amateur with 41 fights getting in the ring with guys who have 2 or 3 times more experience than him. Still, people just don't seem to like him. If he didn't have the name "Julio Cesar Chavez Jr." maybe people would not see him as that bad. JCC Sr. went through a similar path and achieved admirable achievements and HOF status. Let's see how it goes with jr.

If, by any chance, he did beat Cotto, would people give him credit or think that Cotto was no good, damaged goods, too old, past his prime, etc?

difference is his dad was already stepping it up at this point, and once he stepped it up, he didn't jump back down (in quality of fighters he fought), Jr has yet to take a REAL challenge, and just cause he beat Duddy (who's a C level fighter, B at most) it doesn't mean he'll have any chance against a still world class Cotto

Actually, JCC Sr. was fighting for his first title until around his fight #45 or 50. I can remember the same comments back then "...he's fighting bunch of taxi drivers...he's no good...whenever he faces an elite fighter, he will lose..." and so on, still, he ended up being a Hall of Famer with lots of achievements.

You're right, Jr. has not faced top quality opposition but still lets not forget he's pretty much an amateur with around 40 fights facing guys with two or three times his experience. Duddy was his biggest challenge maybe but it doesn't mean much until he faces top quality opposition I suppose. If JCC Jr. ended up beating Cotto, I wonder if people would really give him credit for it or say that Cotto was damaged goods, not in his prime, old, etc.

Wilfredo Vazquez Jr had no amateur experience, he started learning how to box at 21, and only chose to go pro because he was fired from his job, he went pro in 2006, only a year after first putting on gloves and being taught by his father, 4 years later he's already fought decent opposition, is a world champion after brutally beating the heavily touted Marvin Sonsona, and is already looking to unify, so whats the excuse?

[milmascaras1]

sometimes other boxers mature faster than others? the fact that chavez sr. went 89-0-1 before losing his first pro fight and without an amateur career is very impressive indeed. and by the way, i wouldn't suggest comparing vazquez jr. to chavez sr. yet!

[ElTerribleMorales]

sometimes other boxers mature faster than others? The fact that chavez sr. Went 89-0-1 before losing his first pro fight and without an amateur career is very impressive indeed. And by the way, i wouldn't suggest comparing vazquez jr. To chavez sr. Yet!

who the hell is talking about chavez sr.?!?!

[MMASUX]

I think Cotto KO's chavez in 9, but hell he may suprise me.

[milmascaras1]

morales,

i brought up chavez sr. because you always tend to consider him overrated and that, my friend, is so asinine, it's incredible!

[ElTerribleMorales]

morales,

i brought up chavez sr. because you always tend to consider him overrated and that, my friend, is so asinine, it's incredible!

where the hell have i said Chavez Sr is overrated, dude seriously you need to get your head checked, i said Julio Cesar Chavez JR is overrated and is spoon fed tomato cans and now people and given thousands of excuses as to why he hasn't fought anyone, get your facts straight and don't make shit up, Vazquez Jr was in the same boat as Chavez Jr and Omar Chavez, difference is he stepped up his competition and is now a world champion wanting to go forward with fighting the best unlike Jr, oh and he's done it in under 50 fights....

[TitoFan]

it seems to amaze me how terribly senior julio cesar chavez can be so underrated! the man did incredible things that might never be duplicated, ever! not only was he a great fighter, but he dominated almost everybody he ever fought. the only times he struggled and lost was late in his career when he was fighting opponents much younger than he, or when he, at an advanced age, was going up in weight!

what chavez sr. did is truly remarkable when you consider these facts:

- overall record: 107-6-2, 86 KO's
- 3 time division champion
- 26 years, 7 months as a pro
- 27 successful title defenses (all-time best)
- 89-0-1 75 KO's BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 3 time division champion BEFORE suffering first career pro loss
- 23 successful title defenses BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 9 years as world champion BEFORE suffering first career loss
- fought 15 years as a pro BEFORE suffering first career loss
- 31-4-2 22 KO's in title fights (37), (all-time best)
- 16 successful title defenses as jr. welterweight champion (all-time best)
- 15-4-2 vs. world champions (current or former)
- Fought 5 hall of famers (7 total fights)

anybody who doesn't think these accomplishments are truly remarkable is either hiding under a rock or truly dislikes him.

i believe he is probably between 12-15 on the all-time p4p list. many historians have him as high as 17 with a few have him in the top 10.

JCC is an all-time great, I don't think anyone disputes that. However, I've always contended that his record is misleading. His first opponent with a decent W-L record was in his 45th fight.... 45th frigging fight! That's pretty disgraceful by today's standards. When he won his 44th fight, against a "terror" with a 1-6 record, his opponents' cumulative record stood at a paltry 205-216-20, a measly 46% winning percentage. Incredible, but true. At the twilight of his career, his desire to get to 100 wins was so damn obvious, it affected his whole outlook on boxing. He was less than graceful on his first defeat... and he went back to fighting less than stellar opposition to ensure he'd reach his beloved goal. Obviously, he's groomed Junior to follow in his footsteps. Like daddy, like son.

[Nameless]

NSAPTRAN4_EXTR.jpgWell...

Chavez midway in the fight