Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?

[miron_lang]

I know many people here doesnt want this kind of thread but this is a simple fact that is being ignored.

After Pac beat Dela Hoya in 2008 ( 1st fight at 147 ) here is the RING Welterweight Ranking

1. Antonio Margarito
2. Miguel Angel Cotto
3. Shane Mosley
4. Joshua Clottey
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Carlos Quintana
7. Zab Judah
8. Luis Collazo
9. Andre Berto
10. Isaac Hlatshwayo

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Welterweight--2000s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia


Now almost 3 yrs later. Pac's competition as of late are not really good? and all these guys are at least 10-15lbs heavier.

[generalbulldog]

You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.

Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.

[miron_lang]

You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.

Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.

After Mosley comes Clottey in the ranking. yeah the timing can be questioned but as he enters the division the TOP 4 were the fighters he have fought.

Those TOP 4 Welters fought each other ( Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ) We can also add Clottey who fought Marg and Cotto. Do we ask those fighters to wait for Pacquiao so that we are sure that these fighters are not coming off losses?

Mosley won againts Mora a style he doesnt look good againts. he lost to Mayweather who is regarded as the best fighter around by many people. Those 2 fights tells us that Mosley is shot following the sensational KO victory over the other major player in these drama in Margarito?

Lets fair him with Berto.... I think your conscience will tell you how Mosley might perform against Berto.

----

Clottey lost to Cotto and Margarito
Cotto lost to Margarito
Mosley lost to Cotto
Margarito lost to Mosley


These are the 4 best fighters when Pac entered the WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION and PAC FOUGHT THEM ALL.( Will fight Mosley) them coming of bad performances are idiots excuses because they lost to each other. They didnt lose to any GateKeepers or other contenders like Judah, Cintron, Collazo or Quintana. THey lost to their fellow ranked welters.

And Pac is giving away at least 10-15lbs against them on every fight.

Mosley is done because he lost to FLoyd? I thought Floyd is the best fighter around? he's supposed to lose to Floyd

[erics44]

anyone can pick holes in anyones record

on this forum virtually all the top performers of this generation and dating back to ali and further have been rubbished

pac has an amazing record and deserves to be called the best (or in the top 2 at least) and will deserve to go down in history as one of the best ever

if pac had fought mosley after cotto then everyone would be saying mosley was shot coz of the mayorga fight

clotty was a tough man who had given all the welterweights problems and pac is tiny in comparison

since he started moving up through the weights he has fought the best around

[InTheNeutralCorner]

You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.

Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.

After the collapse of the first Pacquiao-Mayweather negotiation, Manny could not fight Mosley since Shane was already scheduled to fight Berto. That fight was cancelled because of the earthquake in Haiti but by that time the contract had already been signed for the Pacquiao-Clottey fight. There was no other viable opponent available then. Even JMM and Bradley had fights scheduled.

[generalbulldog]

You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.

Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.

After Mosley comes Clottey in the ranking. yeah the timing can be questioned but as he enters the division the TOP 4 were the fighters he have fought.

Those TOP 4 Welters fought each other ( Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ) We can also add Clottey who fought Marg and Cotto. Do we ask those fighters to wait for Pacquiao so that we are sure that these fighters are not coming off losses?

Mosley won againts Mora a style he doesnt look good againts. he lost to Mayweather who is regarded as the best fighter around by many people. Those 2 fights tells us that Mosley is shot following the sensational KO victory over the other major player in these drama in Margarito?

Lets fair him with Berto.... I think your conscience will tell you how Mosley might perform against Berto.

----

Clottey lost to Cotto and Margarito
Cotto lost to Margarito
Mosley lost to Cotto
Margarito lost to Mosley


These are the 4 best fighters when Pac entered the WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION and PAC FOUGHT THEM ALL.( Will fight Mosley) them coming of bad performances are idiots excuses because they lost to each other. They didnt lose to any GateKeepers or other contenders like Judah, Cintron, Collazo or Quintana. THey lost to their fellow ranked welters.

And Pac is giving away at least 10-15lbs against them on every fight.

Mosley is done because he lost to FLoyd? I thought Floyd is the best fighter around? he's supposed to lose to Floyd

Mosley is done because he looked like shit against a reality tv boxer in Mora. A feather fisted one at that. Mosley 3 or 4 years ago would have handle him with ease. Mosley is a severely declining fighter this is generally accepted by most boxing fans. What are you telling me that Mosley is still prime or just slightly past prime? If he is't shot, he's close to it.

So now Pac fights Mosley, when he didn't want none of it when Mosley just ko Margarito. You know the same Mosley that says he's willing to go down all the way to 140 when Roach proposed a catchweight of 142 or 143. After the Mayweather fight fell through last year, the Pac team should have made a fight with Mosley, but Floyd got there first. Now that Mosley looked shot against a reality tv feather fisted boxer, it's the right time to pick Mosley right?

[generalbulldog]

And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.

[No Contest]

I swear some of you guys should get a Bachelors degree in Pac and Floyd Boxing History. I'm working on my master in Floyds opposition. With a BA in Pac's anatomy.

[Julius Rain]

And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.

True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.

[Pavlik]

And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.

True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.

nailed it

[Pavlik]

And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.

I just hope one of these days HBO would at least show PBF's actual fight night weight. The recent one's at least.

[Pavlik]

The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.

[erics44]

The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.

im not sure what you mean

[ono]

The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.

im not sure what you mean

Basically i think he means Mayweather is more naturally talented, but Pacquiao looks more impressive because he's reached a similar level without having the same natural gifts.

Of course, it's bollocks

Mayweather does have the more natural technical ability and he does have a naturally higher skill set. But Boxing is so much more than that.

[Gandalf]

I'm not so sure. Mayweather has a better defensive skill set, but Pac has the superior offensive skill set. I think they both excel in quite different ways. That is one of the reasons we all want to see them in the ring.

As for the level of opposition I don't think anyone has said that Pac's opposition is bad, but there have been issues with when the opponents have been selected. For instance Mosley....why now? He hasn't earned a shot and has looked poor recently. That in turn reflects very badly on Manny.