Margarito and the wraps

[Beanflicker]

Anyone who thinks that was the first time is INCREDIBLY niave. The guy spends years toiling on undercards and working his way up, he finally gets his huge PPV win against Cotto, and NOW he decided to cheat against a washed up Mosley? There's no way any rational thinking mind can buy that.

Why would he risk it in such a high profile fight? Obviously, because he was confident that he would get away with it. And keep in mind HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT if it wasn't for Mosley's camp. How long has he been using them before the Mosley fight? Who knows. But be sure he used them and got away with it in previous fight(s).

Us boxing fans (and sports fans in general) have this incredibly niave notion that cheating doesn't prosper, and that it doesn't go on. Reality is a bit different. Whenever the "cheating" discussion is brought up, you always hear people say "Nah he's not cheating, he doesn't seem like that kind of person". We don't know these guys, and cheaters come with all sorts of different personalities.

[El Kabong]

You hit the nail on the head...it's just like with Barry Bonds, apparently we the simple minded sports fans are supposed to believe that everyone BUT Barry Bonds knew that Balco and Greg Anderson were giving them steroids.....I mean that's just so ridiculous it's laughable.

[greynotsoold]

I'm not sure you can say that Margarito hasn't looked good lately because he hasn't been loading his wraps. He turned pro at 15, so he's been fighting a long time. As to whether or not he has used illegal wraps his whole career, I don't know. It would be interesting to me to know how many different trainers/guys wrapping his hands he has had over the years. If the number was one, that being the guy he got rid of after the Mosley fight I'd be more apt to believe that it was not an isolated occurence. If it was several different guys, and we knew for sure that this had gone on with each or most of them, then I think it would indicate that his is not an isolated case and that this sort of thing is more common than we might think. If you think about it...Haven't you noticed how some fighters never seem to mark up their opponents while others do tremendous damage? Gunboat Smith, 40 years ago, was amazed that any damage was ever done with the "pillows" used for gloves at that time, and now the padding has increased considerably since then.

[boxingbantz]

Like I just said in the other thread. It's very unlikely that after 42 fights and having just being in with a 32-0 Cotto, that he would decide that a 38 year old Mosely would be the first fight that he decided to and felt the need to tamper with his wraps, I mean 'come on' !!!

You've just hit the nail on the head mate.

[TitoFan]

Whilst I believe Marg did cheat I was impressed by his performance against Pac Man and believe he does deserve to fight Cotto.

I think Cotto takes him apart this time!

Loaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight.

You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.

[Chino]

Whilst I believe Marg did cheat I was impressed by his performance against Pac Man and believe he does deserve to fight Cotto.

I think Cotto takes him apart this time!

Loaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight.

You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.

Cotto threw the punches on the back foot once he started to get hurt but not at the first half of the fight. Cotto still can pack a punch back pedal or not. Margarito still walked through them without even showing any signs of getting hurt. We might see a different fight considering how Cotto has changed trainer and may feel more comfortable after his last fights. Let's wait and see.

[TitoFan]

Whilst I believe Marg did cheat I was impressed by his performance against Pac Man and believe he does deserve to fight Cotto.

I think Cotto takes him apart this time!

Loaded wraps or not, Cotto couldn't even make Margarito flinch with all the punches he received straight to his face and body. Unless Margarito dipped himself in plaster before the fight.

You have a point. However.... I think the reason the punches had little effect is the way Cotto threw them. He never really committed to the punches.... they were thrown from the back foot. Compare that to Mosley, who took Margarito apart by throwing himself into his punches. Hopefully, Emanuel Stewart will have corrected that strategy, and Cotto's punches will be more effective. After all, Cotto does not have a history of being a soft puncher. The one thing that worries me is the mental aspect.... as Cotto suffered a lot of punishment in their first fight, probably as a result of the loaded wraps. How else to explain the abnormal damage to Cotto's face? A bit of sweet justice was handed out by Pacquaio, who proceeded to bust up Margacheato's face WITHOUT the use of suspect wraps. Cotto's pretty strong mentally, so.... although Margacheato does not DESERVE a 2nd fight.... you can't rule Cotto out.

Cotto threw the punches on the back foot once he started to get hurt but not at the first half of the fight. Cotto still can pack a punch back pedal or not. Margarito still walked through them without even showing any signs of getting hurt. We might see a different fight considering how Cotto has changed trainer and may feel more comfortable after his last fights. Let's wait and see.

I have to say, I never watched the fight again (didn't want to). But if I remember correctly from the 1st time, most of Cotto's combinations to Margarito's head (even from the beginning of the fight), came while Cotto was with his back to the ropes. Not once did he make Margarito back up. He always fought defensively. Yes, with his good boxing skills and good combinations, he hit Margarito numerous times. But Margarito's strong chin, coupled with Cotto's style of throwing punches, at least in THAT fight, made it so that Margarito could walk right through the shots. Pacquiao didn't knock down Margarito either. Why? 'Cause he also didn't commit to his shots like Mosley did. Pacquiao, however, had more stamina and speed against Margarito than Cotto did when HE fought Margarito. So he busted up Margarito and easily won the fight. You have to make Margarito back up. He's a big, strong welter, with the body frame to easily be a good-sized middleweight.

But yeah.... there's no telling WHAT'S gonna happen in the rematch. Cotto will have to beat the mental demons and follow Emanuel's instructions to a "T" to have a good chance of winning this fight.

[brocktonblockbust]

there's a cotto/margarito rematch??

[TitoFan]

there's a cotto/margarito rematch??

Last I heard, it was being discussed.

[greynotsoold]

It is all over Margarito's web site, that he expects to fight Cotto again.

[greynotsoold]

Interesting post by Cressa121 on the "Dempsey; 3 years without a fight" thread regarding the effectiveness of plaster of Paris handwraps. Apparently, in an experiment in 1964, it was determined that after a few punches the plaster would crumble inside the gloves and do more damage to the guy throwing the punches than to the guy catching them.

[Spicoli]

Well...Maybe he knew he wouldn't beat Mosley and after toiling and scratching and clawing his way to the peak of career feared losing it to the point of taking drastic and dispicable means to hold onto it Hey man just a spin as none of us will ever know. Then again he ripped Sebastian Lujans ear off his head and he looks exactly like Cotto so who knows. Wraps or not he wasn't beating Mosley....he wasn't hitting Mosley and Shane was hammering that nail from the very beginning.

I'm glad they are making rematch. Give Cotto a shot to erase the ghosts. Both have been in the meat grinder and busted up badly since. I can't get past the added weight helping Cotto more in power but styalistcally I think we'll see a repeat of first fight. Can see Cotto standng in more and again taking damage sheely on volume and angles Tony has, then looking for backfoot and being square on ropes. As much as some say Cotto being busted up badly translates to Tony having loaded wraps...should Cotto take same damage does it mean he was clean? He's already done the damage to career, wears a scarlet letter and something tells me it wont change any minds one way or the other. If Margarito and camp thinks a rematch win erases all doubts they are kidding themselves.

[TitoFan]

Well...Maybe he knew he wouldn't beat Mosley and after toiling and scratching and clawing his way to the peak of career feared losing it to the point of taking drastic and dispicable means to hold onto it Hey man just a spin as none of us will ever know. Then again he ripped Sebastian Lujans ear off his head and he looks exactly like Cotto so who knows. Wraps or not he wasn't beating Mosley....he wasn't hitting Mosley and Shane was hammering that nail from the very beginning.

I'm glad they are making rematch. Give Cotto a shot to erase the ghosts. Both have been in the meat grinder and busted up badly since. I can't get past the added weight helping Cotto more in power but styalistcally I think we'll see a repeat of first fight. Can see Cotto standng in more and again taking damage sheely on volume and angles Tony has, then looking for backfoot and being square on ropes. As much as some say Cotto being busted up badly translates to Tony having loaded wraps...should Cotto take same damage does it mean he was clean? He's already done the damage to career, wears a scarlet letter and something tells me it wont change any minds one way or the other. If Margarito and camp thinks a rematch win erases all doubts they are kidding themselves.

I thought I'd bold that particular part. I'm of the opinion that when you've been caught cheating once, it casts reasonable doubts over previous fights as well. The damage to Cotto's face was too extensive. He had been cut before, but never busted up that bad. And this from relatively few rounds, as Cotto was easily dominating the first half of the fight. Margarito should thank his lucky stars he's been allowed anywhere near a boxing ring. Regardless of the outcome, Margarito is scarred for life.

[El Kabong]

Interesting post by Cressa121 on the "Dempsey; 3 years without a fight" thread regarding the effectiveness of plaster of Paris handwraps. Apparently, in an experiment in 1964, it was determined that after a few punches the plaster would crumble inside the gloves and do more damage to the guy throwing the punches than to the guy catching them.

.....I would ask how that study was conducted. Because if that was "fact" then why would trainers continue to load their fighters wraps

[carpetrepairhouston]

Interesting post by Cressa121 on the "Dempsey; 3 years without a fight" thread regarding the effectiveness of plaster of Paris handwraps. Apparently, in an experiment in 1964, it was determined that after a few punches the plaster would crumble inside the gloves and do more damage to the guy throwing the punches than to the guy catching them.

I'm sure what they use now for paris is a whole lot different from when they used in 1964, as well as no trainer would make the wrap out of plaster. I would think you're going to use the plaster at your knuckle guards only and use the gauze to in case the plaster so that it stays hard while you're destroying someones face.

I also completely agree w/another poster saying that the confidence you have knowing you're a cheater and that once the bricks harden, you'll be able to defeat your opponent, so you'll be WAY more willing to take a punch of 20, so that you can give 5 that feel like 100.

Some may disagree, but to those that disagree, I'd have to ask if you've actually laced up before and got in the ring? If you have, you know that this boxing or combat sport is 80% mental. If your confidence screams "I rule the world" and you're able to deliver a shocking hit, you're going to win a lot of fights.