What's with all these bi-polar people?

[ryanman]

Mental illness is a very real problem and just because you can deal with your "problems" doesn't mean other people can and it certainly doesn't mean that they don't experience things in a much different way than you do. Honestly, I think your post smacks of ignorance and is typical of the types of attitudes which make it difficult for people with mental health problems to get the help they need.

[ryanman]

yes and no. It's often easier to hide certain mental illness depending on your profession, if you're an actor it's just you being 'artistic'. Imagine being bi-polar and a butcher with a wife, kids, and a morgage. seems a bit less fancy.

I'm kind of on the fence on this. I understand that some have serious problems, but I also wince when I hear of yet another celebrity quite publically coming out as bi-polar. It's like the latest cool thing for the famous to have. I can't control my life, well here is my medical justification.

I don't think its that widespread Miles. But obviously one celebrity saying publically that they suffer from it is likely to encourage others in their position to do the same. Most of the information about a celebrity is in the public domain, their spouse, their children, their favourite holiday destinations, the lastest diet/exercise regime they are on etc etc. Being Bi-Polar is another aspect of them and shouldn't be hidden (not if everything else about them is un-hidden).
(I actually would rather that we didn't know every aspect of every celebrities life, but something like BI-Polar is more significant than, say, what they eat for breakfast).

Although it may seem to you that there are lots of celebrities 'coming out' with a mental illness recentley don't forget that there are a LOT of celebrities.
We could play a game, you name a celebrity with a supposed metal illness, and I will name one without.
You will be finished in 10 minutes. I will still be naming them this time next week.
Statistically speaking the numbers probably reflect what would be scientifically expected (or close to).

[Gandalf]

I find it weird that the man who doesn't believe God, and therefore a soul keeps talking about accepting the 'way we are'.

How are you exactly? Personality and feelings according to evolutionary biology is nothing more than chemicals in the brain. If somebody is feeling shy, or angry, miserable all it is is chemicals in the brain being released to make them feel that way.

So why are you against giving them pills to alter that biochemistry?

You have a commitment to personhood that is entirely at odds with your world view.

I exist in the here and now and I have my values in the here and now. I cannot just eradicate all thought because I am godless. I believe in life and I believe in death, these are things that we all have to go through either with or without delusion. To alter a natural state through drugs is to delude the natural self.

If someone is shy then that is their nature. Perhaps it has been socially conditioned or perhaps it was there all along, but that person has the ability to adapt.

I don't like the idea of using drugs to alter what is a natural human condition. If we are to allow pharmaceutical companies to produce such drugs then we should allow the black market to compete too. Cocaine is probably just as effective when it comes to reducing shyness.

I like the way nature has designed people and am against artificial manipulation of the mind via drugs and the body via plastic surgery.

[Gandalf]

Ultimately, if that is what people want to do then so be it. I am a libertarian and people are free to make their own choices, but I do find it false. You have one real life time, you might as well be yourself no matter how miserable it might be.

[Gandalf]

Mind you I shouldn't talk about mind altering drugs when it was me that went to work with a hangover on a bloody wednesday. Drugs are all over the place you can't even drink a cup of coffee without polluting the mind. Sod it, let everyone take their anti-angry pills, their hard on pills whatever. Aesthetically I find it very unappealing, but then again I find many aspects of the modern capitalist consumer society unappealing too, but I continue to live within it. I haven't gone and camped out in the forest yet.

[ono]

You're an odd one Miles. I'm fully in agreement with what Bilbo and CFH have said.

I've seen first hand what depression can do. My ex girlfriend had a serious disorder and it was horrible for me to deal with. God only knows what it's like for her. What made it harder for her was other people's complete lack of understanding. Constantly being asked 'what have you got to be depressed about?' and being told to 'get on with it'.

It's not good.

[Gandalf]

I am a bit strange on this one for sure. It's not one of those threads where I am convinced that I am right and that everyone is wrong, it's more one of those working my thoughts out as I go along threads. At times I can probably sound contradictory quite probably because I have been thinking on the hop and haven't actually sat down and analysed quite what it is I truly think. There are many issues I have worked over in my mind, but this isn't one of them. I read a news story on Zeta-Jones and thought I would race on through with an amped up thread.

I don't know why I am being so harsh on the depressed as I can sometimes be the bleakest of people with the most pessimistic and hopeless of dispositions myself. I should probably be a bit more sympathetic. It isn't always like that for me though and often times I can feel really content with life. Just ups and downs. But isn't that normal for everybody? I really think that people need to just get on with it for there really is nothing else. You can either face another day or you can quit and ultimately that decision lies within the self.

What am I going on about anyway? I have no idea, I guess I believe that though there are serious cases where the mind is probably quite screwed up, I think a lot of people use mental illness as an excuse for a basic lack of self control. Was Keith Moon a mentalist or was he someone who just took things too far because he quite liked it? I've a feeling a lot of people probably like the feeling of pushing too far, but when you go over the edge it's nice to have an excuse such as ''oh, I have a mental disorder".

[JazMerkin]

I'm in full agreement with CFH (scum), Ono, Ryanman & even Bilbo.

However, in Miles defence, if you've not got people close to you suffering from it, it's hard to understand. I've got a few nutjobs in my family (I know I should say something PC, but that sounds better) & you can definitely see how it fucks up their lives. Not that it's particularly fun for you, I remember my uncle suddenly deciding to drag me out of bed at 7am on a holiday a few summers ago until I threatened to break his jaw , but he has very little treatment for his disorder apart from my aunt just trying to stop his manic depression. He has an outlook similar to yours Miles, and his adherence to it makes others' lives around him very difficult.

[Kev]

You clearly don't fully understand your own world view Miles.

There is no natural self. Man is merely a collection of molecules arranged into a carbon based organism that takes in food in order to generate energy for movement and sexual reproduction and has an anus to excrete said waste. It's 'purpose is to live to sexual maturity, mate and reproduce and maintain its offspring long enough so that it can fend for itself. As the original organism is no longer needed once successors have been born it can expire.

Thought processes and emotional feelings are all controlled by chemicals in the brain. Some people release more or less of certain chemicals than others.

To better regulate and control an organisms emotional wellbeing pills can be administered to return chemical balance to normal. This will hopefully better enable it to function more efficiently regarding reprodution and survival, of course only needed to until younger ofspring are able to spport themselves independently.

I'm confused on what grounds you object? Maybe you belive treatment of the weak is wrong as it is natures way of weeding out those genes unfit for existence? That makes sense but I havnt heard you speak out against medical care before, even though it is against nature.

[Gandalf]

There is a natural self. It is the me that is typing these thoughts and the me who reads what I read and the me who plans my lessons etc. This is what makes me an individual. I am an individual who is capable of making conscious decisions quite distinct from others. It is finite and limited, but while it lasts it is what I am.

I just don't understand how we can say that a gloomy or depressed disposition is not natural. To the person predisposed to that condition surely that is a normal state of affairs? That is what they have been born and raised with and that is what they must work through. If they cannot procreate then that is their hard luck. They should at least have pretended to be cheerful on a date.

As one who has no particular desire to pass on genes to any other poor little chap, I don't really have too many opinions regarding the need to create offspring. I don't really see the need for that and probably think more like the resourceful panda than a rabbit. I have probably learned from my parents in that regard...to resist and reject it all.

I just think a natural condition is the way that one was intended to be so why interfere with that process? If they can't pass on their genes? Well, who cares? Maybe it's better for the world that more depressed people don't get pregnant as the world is getting rather full as it is.

[JazMerkin]

Ok, seriously Bilbo/Miles, it's getting damn tiring of you guys trying to turn every thread into a debate about your respective beliefs regarding God. This is actually a pretty interesting topic & it doesn't need to be about Miles lack of belief in God rather his lack of understanding for people with mental illness. So what if there are some contradictions in it, we're all contradictory in our beliefs.

[Gandalf]

Ok, seriously Bilbo/Miles, it's getting damn tiring of you guys trying to turn every thread into a debate about your respective beliefs regarding God. This is actually a pretty interesting topic & it doesn't need to be about Miles lack of belief in God rather his lack of understanding for people with mental illness. So what if there are some contradictions in it, we're all contradictory in our beliefs.

I agree with that and in my defence I didn't bring it up.

As I said before, I started the thread ad hoc and am working my views out bit by bit. But when the whole god thing comes up I do get defensive and try to defend myself somewhat. If Bilbo will be a gent then I shall too. I am more than happy to stick to only this topic and have another thread for if anyone wants to debate something else.

[Kev]

There is a natural self. It is the me that is typing these thoughts and the me who reads what I read and the me who plans my lessons etc. This is what makes me an individual. I am an individual who is capable of making conscious decisions quite distinct from others. It is finite and limited, but while it lasts it is what I am.

I just don't understand how we can say that a gloomy or depressed disposition is not natural. To the person predisposed to that condition surely that is a normal state of affairs? That is what they have been born and raised with and that is what they must work through. If they cannot procreate then that is their hard luck. They should at least have pretended to be cheerful on a date.

As one who has no particular desire to pass on genes to any other poor little chap, I don't really have too many opinions regarding the need to create offspring. I don't really see the need for that and probably think more like the resourceful panda than a rabbit. I have probably learned from my parents in that regard...to resist and reject it all.

I just think a natural condition is the way that one was intended to be so why interfere with that process? If they can't pass on their genes? Well, who cares? Maybe it's better for the world that more depressed people don't get pregnant as the world is getting rather full as it is.

How so? You don't have a soul right? The thinking processes are just a part of your physical brain, so if somebody has a different chemical balance they would think differently and effectively be somebody else.

You are merely a chemical receptor and responder with a big haddrive of memories of past experiences.

You are not you, it's just part of your brain that has memories of past events stored and the current receptors in your brain give meaning to that in order to learn from past events which gives you the illusion of having a personality thought. But you don't really, how could you? The atoms andmolecues that made up your body 10 years ago have virtually all died and been replaced now. You are no longer who you were 10 years ago, your brain merely has stored that organisms past experiences to learn from and to be able to interact within the world today.

Stop talking about self, its a religious concept, not a scientific one. You are a very confused man...

[JazMerkin]

Ok, seriously Bilbo/Miles, it's getting damn tiring of you guys trying to turn every thread into a debate about your respective beliefs regarding God. This is actually a pretty interesting topic & it doesn't need to be about Miles lack of belief in God rather his lack of understanding for people with mental illness. So what if there are some contradictions in it, we're all contradictory in our beliefs.

I agree with that and in my defence I didn't bring it up.

As I said before, I started the thread ad hoc and am working my views out bit by bit. But when the whole god thing comes up I do get defensive and try to defend myself somewhat. If Bilbo will be a gent then I shall too. I am more than happy to stick to only this topic and have another thread for if anyone wants to debate something else.

Thank God (it's an expression, let's not use it as more means for debate on that), I would send you some rep but need to spread it like Big H does STDs.

As it is, we can all have some pretty uninformed views on things we don't come into contact with. I remember up until I went to university, I genuinely believed that all gay people should be put on an island somewhere away from 'normal' people, a kind of 'Gaysrael'. Although worryingly that marked me out as a real liberal on the issue in my area

[Fenster]

Ok, seriously Bilbo/Miles, it's getting damn tiring of you guys trying to turn every thread into a debate about your respective beliefs regarding God. This is actually a pretty interesting topic & it doesn't need to be about Miles lack of belief in God rather his lack of understanding for people with mental illness. So what if there are some contradictions in it, we're all contradictory in our beliefs.

I agree with that and in my defence I didn't bring it up.

As I said before, I started the thread ad hoc and am working my views out bit by bit. But when the whole god thing comes up I do get defensive and try to defend myself somewhat. If Bilbo will be a gent then I shall too. I am more than happy to stick to only this topic and have another thread for if anyone wants to debate something else.

Thank God (it's an expression, let's not use it as more means for debate on that), I would send you some rep but need to spread it like Big H does STDs.

As it is, we can all have some pretty uninformed views on things we don't come into contact with. I remember up until I went to university, I genuinely believed that all gay people should be put on an island somewhere away from 'normal' people, a kind of 'Gaysrael'. Although worryingly that marked me out as a real liberal on the issue in my area