Quote Originally Posted by p4pking
Well basiically Bilbo, this arguement comes down to what you base p4p on. Stricly speaking by accomplishements, you have a very good point... Marquez can't yet match the achievements of Mayweather, Winky, Pac, or Hopkins. But, I still have him about top 3 after watching him beat Vasquez. It's hard to rank him above Pac or Winky, I understand that... But in terms of his ability, I feel he's right up there with them. Can't even remember where I had him beforehand(though he was in my top 10...) but moving up in weight to bneat Vasquez like that is extremely impressive. Especially since he fights at a low weight division, which not only does not receive the same attention and therefore mega fights as higher div's, in addition, it is much more difficult to successfully move up divisions, the smaller you are. Basically I would like to rate Hopkins, or Winky definetivly above Marquez, but at this stage in their careers, Im just not sure they are p4p better than he is, accomplishements aside. Guess Im really somewhat on the fence with this one... But R Marquez has all the goods, and I think you were doing Vasquez a huge injustice by saying he was no better than Lacy or Tarver... In fact, I wonder if you've ever seen him fight after hearing this
I do rate Vazquez, I just happen to think that Lacy and Tarver are both a lot better than people credit them too! Lacy was exposed against Calzaghe but no more than Vazquez was being against Ghonzalez. The only difference is that Ghonzalez was no Calzaghe!

If Hopkins and Vazquez could both fight at the same weight (in a hypothetical p4p matchup) I put it to you that Hopkins would beat Vazquez as easily as he did Tarver, or Trinidad. Can you really disagree with this? Thats why I rate Hopkins higher than Marquez.

Vazquez is one of those fighters in the same class as Coralles. A great exciting puncher, terrific to watch with defensive vulnurabilities and who is always going to lose to a great boxer, as long as the boxer can take his shots. That's why I knew Marquez would dominate. I know some say it was a close fight, but I didn't really see that. It was a hard fight but it was always going to be Marquez that one right from the first bell. He even won the whole rest of the third round apart from being knocked down.

Now Marquez I agree is something special but he's now at the stage Mayweather was 4 or 5 years ago, or Paquaio a couple of years, loads of potential, flashy, exciting and looks like he's got the goods. But he has to actually produce before he's earned his spot in the top 3.

I mean look at Cotto. Surely this guy has every bit the talent and potential that Marquez has? But he's yet to really get into the top 10 p4p at all. If he beats Judah, who is on a par with Vazquez it won't leap him to number 3, and remember Cotto has just moved up, same as Marquez.

I really like Marquez, and really rate him, it's just that to be in the top 5 p4p in my opinion you need to be there on acomplishments and not potential.

He hasn't achieved enough to be top 5 p4p yet, although certainly he does have the potential to get there.