Hi Van,

Here is a message i wrote on a thread a while back on BJJ/Judo and it also inculdes a bit on Kimura/Gracie

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"Von i would love to agree with you here but inavariably the BJJ exponent wins if its a ground grappling match simply because thats solely what they work on. They roll constantly and quite frankly its fookin boring to watch. Anyone ever wathed a BJJ match? Its ok for the first 5 minutes watching them gain dominant positions but after that its not very interesting...const antly waiting in guard for an opportunity and there is very little action.

Go watch a live judo match and see someone get tossed in the air at the blink of an eye, then if the guys twsist out of the throw and lands on his front watch how quickly and explosively the agressor moves into the groundwork.

Judo newaza is a lot more explosive. Because of limited matt time in competition if you are gonna do something on the ground you do it f*cking quick you dont hang about. Myself and a couple of other lads from my school went to a BJJ class. Ok it was a bit naughty and we wore white belts. The instructor was a fookin blue belt BJJ! We had some fun there Grin. At the end of the day i respect BJJ for what it is and thats a great submission art. All of BJJ's subs have been explored and expaned from Judo..orginally kosen judo which is a pretty much newaza based form of Kodokan judo.

If you want to know what happens when an olympic level judoka fights a skilled BJJ exponent then look at Hidehiko Yoshidas matches against Royce Gracie. First one Yoshida won (ok it was contraversial and everyone has their opinion on it) the second match was a draw. Yoshida won the gold medal at the Barcelona olympics and was quite frankly not greatly known for groundwork. his uchimata throw was one of the fiercest around and he slammed everybody with it. I think you'll agree though that Judo stacks up nicely against BJJ on the ground but pound for pound BJJ has the edge because its solely what they work on.

As for the most rounded in terms of submissions and takedowns, balance on the feet, defence against takedowns the i'm sorry all you BJJers (and i love you believe me) but Judo pips you to the post.

Oh and there is also the small matter of Kimura (great japanese judoka) breaking Helio Gracies arm in a match. He got him in a ude garame which is now called...well...a kimura.

So all you MMA ers at least now when you hear people talk about Kimuras being aplied and it being a great BJJ move at least now you can correct them and say "erm sorry its actually Judo...know your place son"

Here's a little history on how the greatest BJJ'er got owned by one of the greatest Judokas (i suppose in some way backing your threory Von ). Kimura was awesome, an animal.

http://www.grapplearts.com/Kimura-Article.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masahiko_Kimura

"

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Here is the full thread because i think you might find it interesting and you were away in Iraq at the time i think


http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...-t39940.0.html