Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
There are many strong points in your arguement Jaz and I liek how you put it together, but essentially my doubts are summarised in two points.
The first is the era. Fighters a were a lot less articulate in terms of boxing skill and conditioing was primitive and ineffectual.
I would expect SRL and Tommy to scythe through most of SRR's competition, with the exception of Gavilan, La Motta, HurricaneHank and perhaps Basilio/Fulmer. Fighting at the time was just that and SRR's concept of boxing was radical and new. Fighters didn't know how to deal with it. SRL and Tommy wer by far more equiped to deal with SRR's skill.
The second is the lack of evidence. I can't put blind faith in any fighter, particularly in an era notorious for fixed fights and jobbers.
Remeber Mike Tyson stated after he fought Holmes that he wouldn't have stood a chance against a Prime Larry. Few rate larry above Tyson, so SRL like many writers and fans may have been nostalgic.
Although I personally rate Tyson on a similar level to Holmes, a prime Holmes would've been a completely different proposition for Tyson & I'm not sure he could've got in under that jab in the way he was able to once Holmes was shot. I also notice that the majority of people with good boxing knowledge tend to rate Holmes above Tyson. It's not how I feel, but that doesn't mean I'm right.
On your notes on the eras, fighters were FAR hungrier in those days & you would get a lot more even fights. SRR was being matched with guys with positive solid records from early in his career. Yes skill was not on the same level, however the argument that they were more poorly conditioned always strikes me as odd as those guys would fight longer fights often in poor conditions, meaning that their conditioning had to be pretty top-class. Whilst skill levels & instruction has been improved, the fact is the methods used to condition a fighter have not significantly changed in the past 60 odd years. Yes, things were crooked back then, but can you honestly say that under influence of the likes of Arum & King that boxing has become honest.
In terms of competition, as well as those mentioned, Fritzie Zivic, Bobo Olson, Paul Pender & Rocky Graziano are also worthy of mention, certainly the equivalent of Kalule, Lalonde or Hutchings. I would expect SRR to deal with the competition of both men handily with the exception of Hagler & maybe Duran, although I think he still beats both of them.
I can understand not putting faith in what you haven't seen, but from what I HAVE seen, he stands head & shoulders above, & when those such as Leonard, Louis & Ali all rate him as the greatest I think I'll trust in what they say. We all know Ali wouldn't say that if he didn't mean it.
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