Fair or Not? Family gets evicted from council home because son was a rioter

[Mark TKO]

not fair on the family but this nation is far too soft. I am all for harshe punishment of the kid - fuck him.

in the 80s as kids we were shit scared of some teachers and the police. Thats all changed


I have seen quite often teenagers abusing cops and laughing and they just don't know what to do or deal with. I also know a couple of teachers who have quit as they can't handle it - and are powerless to do anything any more.

Hit the fuckers first - ask questions later is maybe taking it a bit far but a move in that direction would suit me.

[BIG H]

not fair on the family but this nation is far too soft. I am all for harshe punishment of the kid - fuck him.

in the 80s as kids we were shit scared of some teachers and the police. Thats all changed


I have seen quite often teenagers abusing cops and laughing and they just don't know what to do or deal with. I also know a couple of teachers who have quit as they can't handle it - and are powerless to do anything any more.

Hit the fuckers first - ask questions later is maybe taking it a bit far but a move in that direction would suit me.

Totally agree!!

Kids (and adults) need to learn respect and learn to respect the laws of the lands. There needs to be a deterrant for breaking laws - currently there isn't!

But, we also need to address what is causing kids to go down this route.

[Gandalf]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

[generalbulldog]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

[Ghost]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

Here Here.

[Mark TKO]

Miles has got it right with bring back the cane

To my mind thats when the downfall started. I was a bit young at the time but remember my school having a debate for parents wishing to attend re the cane banning. Think it was around 81.

The slipper stayed for a few years after - and fuck me that hurt - but that went too. Now I think teachers can't even touch the kids. Maybe some teachers on here can elaborate.

Without going into too much detail a friend's son has recently been sentenced to four years for being a 'very silly boy.' He is in his early 20s and she worried at first , like any mother would, but she is now quite relaxed and not worried about him inside as has been to see him and seen the facilities he has. He has access to ps3, pool table, tv, table tennis and its like a common room she says most of the time.

She syas in fact she is less worried about him now as she was when at home as isn't worrying about him being out and up to no good.

I thought prisions were supposed to be a deterrent ? Shouldn't they be the worst place imaginable ? This country is fucked up.

and agreed re council houses to teenage mums - fuck that. And immigrants and asylum seekers having 500k houses for all their kids down south. again fuck that


i could go on but you get the general idea

[Mark TKO]

one of my mates was saying in pub other week he was in favour of bringing back the stocks for petty crimes rather than asbos, comm. Still some originals from way back on the village green near me.

At first thought ludicrous but more you think about it its not as daft as first seems. Put the fuckers in for an hour and lets throw smelly veg and fruit at them for an hour (ok you would have to ban tins) . Would be good way to spend sunday morning and practice your throwing arm. And I reckon if you had to endure it there's no way you would want to go back in.

There should also be different objects allowed for how many times you been in stocks. On third time potatoes and hard fruit would be allowed.Now that would be good - the guy in the stocks (or bird) would be shitting themselves as people took aim)

Again I could go on but you get the general idea.......

[Gandalf]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

No, I disagree. It is not completely down to the family. It is a factor, but there are many other factors at play too. You cannot force a child to be good. Maybe you do your best as a parent, but if your child starts hanging out with other hoodlums, it isn't easy to reign back in control of your child. Not that's to say that is what happened, but it is one way for a child to become lost from your control.

You tackle wider social problems and you come down hard in those who directly go against what are consider to be the greater interests of society at large. Stick this kid in a gulag for a year, but leave the mother who did not riot alone.

And sure, where is the father? All AWOL fathers need to be held to account.

[Kev]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

I don't agree with this ridiculous comment at all. I guess then in this case Tony Blair, when prime minister raised his son to be a drunken yob when he had his mad drunken bender as a 16 year old and famously got arrested for being drunk and incapable when passed out in the streets of London.

Or the Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour must have brought his adopted son up to have no respect when he got jailed for swinging on the cenotaph and throwing a bin at Prince Charle's car?

What happened with the rioting, in the case of these youngsters is that they all got caught up in the excitement of what must have felt like a post apocalyptic, crazy once in a lifetime experience to go wild and smash things up. Was it wrong? Of course it was, but kids act with a group mentality and it's incredibly easy to get swept along in the euphoria of what was happening. Some lad got jailed for two years for nicking a bottle of water from a supermarket that was being looted. Again he shouldn't have nicked it, but people do silly things during crazy events and it wasn't like he was really rioting. Two 18 year old lads, who didn't even take part in riots got 4 years for creating a facebook page entitled ?Lets have a riot in Norwich!'. There was no riot there even. Ridiculous sentence to make a statement and targeting entirely the wrong offenders.

There is nothing more riduclous and irritating than politicians playing demagogues and pandering to irate public opinion in a time of national unrest over issues. Any actions they undertake and policies they rush through are always half baked, ill thought out and have to be dropped later at government expense.

How does throwing people out of a council house because their son rioted help society? Where will this family now live? Are they homeless on the streets or have they been shoved into other emergency housing at taxpayer expense? There have also been cries to stop rioters benefits. Again, how would that help society? Take away a potential criminals income and what is he going to do to pay for food and shelter? Hmm, probably turn to crime I'm guessing...

I generally hate liberals but on prison sentences and punishments they have got it right. Stick a load of 18/20 yr old kids in jail and all you are doing is institutionalizing them to the prison system and turning them into future criminals.

Harsh sentences for first time offenders simply doesn't work. The reoffending rates in the UK for prisoners released is appalling. By contrast Norway has much much more leniant sentences and they have the lowest reoffending rates in the whole of Europe. Ken Clarke was on the right track but once again the moronic public and the ill informed people of Britian moaned and compalined, created an absurd outcry about him condoning rape and forced the plans to be shelved.

We need a leader like Thatcher, who wasn't for turning and didn't kowtow to public clamouring.

[generalbulldog]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

I don't agree with this ridiculous comment at all. I guess then in this case Tony Blair, when prime minister raised his son to be a drunken yob when he had his mad drunken bender as a 16 year old and famously got arrested for being drunk and incapable when passed out in the streets of London.

Or the Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour must have brought his adopted son up to have no respect when he got jailed for swinging on the cenotaph and throwing a bin at Prince Charle's car?

What happened with the rioting, in the case of these youngsters is that they all got caught up in the excitement of what must have felt like a post apocalyptic, crazy once in a lifetime experience to go wild and smash things up. Was it wrong? Of course it was, but kids act with a group mentality and it's incredibly easy to get swept along in the euphoria of what was happening. Some lad got jailed for two years for nicking a bottle of water from a supermarket that was being looted. Again he shouldn't have nicked it, but people do silly things during crazy events and it wasn't like he was really rioting. Two 18 year old lads, who didn't even take part in riots got 4 years for creating a facebook page entitled ?Lets have a riot in Norwich!'. There was no riot there even. Ridiculous sentence to make a statement and targeting entirely the wrong offenders.

There is nothing more riduclous and irritating than politicians playing demagogues and pandering to irate public opinion in a time of national unrest over issues. Any actions they undertake and policies they rush through are always half baked, ill thought out and have to be dropped later at government expense.

How does throwing people out of a council house because their son rioted help society? Where will this family now live? Are they homeless on the streets or have they been shoved into other emergency housing at taxpayer expense? There have also been cries to stop rioters benefits. Again, how would that help society? Take away a potential criminals income and what is he going to do to pay for food and shelter? Hmm, probably turn to crime I'm guessing...

I generally hate liberals but on prison sentences and punishments they have got it right. Stick a load of 18/20 yr old kids in jail and all you are doing is institutionalizing them to the prison system and turning them into future criminals.

Harsh sentences for first time offenders simply doesn't work. The reoffending rates in the UK for prisoners released is appalling. By contrast Norway has much much more leniant sentences and they have the lowest reoffending rates in the whole of Europe. Ken Clarke was on the right track but once again the moronic public and the ill informed people of Britian moaned and compalined, created an absurd outcry about him condoning rape and forced the plans to be shelved.

We need a leader like Thatcher, who wasn't for turning and didn't kowtow to public clamouring.

I don't give a shit about 1 or 2 incidents of fuck ups that turn out to be great people like Blair or Gilmor. The point being is that parenting or lack of it has a major effect on how the kids turn out. So you are disputing this claim then? And stop blaming it on government policies, the perpetrator and the bad parenting is to be blamed for this. Have you read the article? It's kind of funny that the mother is saying that her kid is at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Well here's a question. What was her little angel running the streets at any time and place to be at the wrong place and wrong time? Why wasn't he at home?

I've always found it funny for people always blaming the government, the school, the bad neighborhood, never the lack of parental guidance and morals instilled inside the home. Always a way to excuse criminal behavior, whatever criminal offense it's always someone's else fault. Never the perpetrator or how they were raised.

Things like parenting and values especially culturally has a big effect on how the child turns out. Those poor ass Chinese and Korean kids and other East Asians living in shitty conditions when immigrating to America but still managed to get accepted by record numbers in America's top universities and go on to be upstanding citizens in white collar professions while moving up the socio-economic ladder. Liberals don't like to include East Asians as minorities because it shits all over their argument that bad schools and bad environment is the result why other groups have a higher rate of crime and higher drop out rates. So how did little May Ling and Lee Ming did it? Well their mom and dad heavily places education first along with their moral values in their kids. So in other words parenting.

[Kev]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

I disagreed that the family is not to be blamed for this. The mother did not raise her son right. She failed as a parent to instill any sense of morals or responsibility in that little hellraiser. She let him run the streets at any time of the day to cause mayhem and destruction on the livelihoods of innocent people. In short, she was a shitty parent that didn't instill any values in him.

Should she and her daughter be kicked out of the council home? No I wouldn't go that far, but she failed as a parent. Any sense of character, any sense of morality or responsibility is first instilled at home. That's where it starts first. The mother should not be absolved of any responsibility. And where the hell is the kid's father?

I don't agree with this ridiculous comment at all. I guess then in this case Tony Blair, when prime minister raised his son to be a drunken yob when he had his mad drunken bender as a 16 year old and famously got arrested for being drunk and incapable when passed out in the streets of London.

Or the Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour must have brought his adopted son up to have no respect when he got jailed for swinging on the cenotaph and throwing a bin at Prince Charle's car?

What happened with the rioting, in the case of these youngsters is that they all got caught up in the excitement of what must have felt like a post apocalyptic, crazy once in a lifetime experience to go wild and smash things up. Was it wrong? Of course it was, but kids act with a group mentality and it's incredibly easy to get swept along in the euphoria of what was happening. Some lad got jailed for two years for nicking a bottle of water from a supermarket that was being looted. Again he shouldn't have nicked it, but people do silly things during crazy events and it wasn't like he was really rioting. Two 18 year old lads, who didn't even take part in riots got 4 years for creating a facebook page entitled ?Lets have a riot in Norwich!'. There was no riot there even. Ridiculous sentence to make a statement and targeting entirely the wrong offenders.

There is nothing more riduclous and irritating than politicians playing demagogues and pandering to irate public opinion in a time of national unrest over issues. Any actions they undertake and policies they rush through are always half baked, ill thought out and have to be dropped later at government expense.

How does throwing people out of a council house because their son rioted help society? Where will this family now live? Are they homeless on the streets or have they been shoved into other emergency housing at taxpayer expense? There have also been cries to stop rioters benefits. Again, how would that help society? Take away a potential criminals income and what is he going to do to pay for food and shelter? Hmm, probably turn to crime I'm guessing...

I generally hate liberals but on prison sentences and punishments they have got it right. Stick a load of 18/20 yr old kids in jail and all you are doing is institutionalizing them to the prison system and turning them into future criminals.

Harsh sentences for first time offenders simply doesn't work. The reoffending rates in the UK for prisoners released is appalling. By contrast Norway has much much more leniant sentences and they have the lowest reoffending rates in the whole of Europe. Ken Clarke was on the right track but once again the moronic public and the ill informed people of Britian moaned and compalined, created an absurd outcry about him condoning rape and forced the plans to be shelved.

We need a leader like Thatcher, who wasn't for turning and didn't kowtow to public clamouring.

I don't give a shit about 1 or 2 incidents of fuck ups that turn out to be great people like Blair or Gilmor. The point being is that parenting or lack of it has a major effect on how the kids turn out. So you are disputing this claim then? And stop blaming it on government policies, the perpetrator and the bad parenting is to be blamed for this. Have you read the article? It's kind of funny that the mother is saying that her kid is at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Well here's a question. What was her little angel running the streets at any time and place to be at the wrong place and wrong time? Why wasn't he at home?

I've always found it funny for people always blaming the government, the school, the bad neighborhood, never the lack of parental guidance and morals instilled inside the home. Always a way to excuse criminal behavior, whatever criminal offense it's always someone's else fault. Never the perpetrator or how they were raised.

Things like parenting and values especially culturally has a big effect on how the child turns out. Those poor ass Chinese and Korean kids and other East Asians living in shitty conditions when immigrating to America but still managed to get accepted by record numbers in America's top universities and go on to be upstanding citizens in white collar professions while moving up the socio-economic ladder. Liberals don't like to include East Asians as minorities because it shits all over their argument that bad schools and bad environment is the result why other groups have a higher rate of crime and higher drop out rates. So how did little May Ling and Lee Ming did it? Well their mom and dad heavily places education first along with their moral values in their kids. So in other words parenting.

Actually, if you read Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book Outliers he will explain to you how they did it. It wasn't down to individual parenting at all but much bigger societal and cultural factors. Strangely the main reason is their agriculture being built around rice growing rather than the Westerners and their wheat fields.

It's a fascinating story actually.

The decline of Christianity and moral values and the subsequent collapse of the traditional family unit is far more responsible than any individual parent.

Remember that parents are just children too, but older, and as much the product of their social backgrounds and enviroments as anyone else.

The history of the actions of the German people during Hitler's rise to power and world war, Stanley Milgram's infamous electric shock experiments and Philip Zombardo's prison experiment all prove that any of us are capable of behaving in devlish ways, often under relatively little pressure beyond the desire for conformity.

Yes rioting is the responsibility of an individual and his or her own actions, but pack mentality and conformity, as CFH points out is a massive, massive influencer and very few people are immune to it.

A lot of these people rioted because they were kids getting a feeling of empowerment and excitment in sharing a dangerous and unique experience togwther. It might not be a popular answer, and David Cameron certainly isn't going to say it, but the truth is that were you or I a young lad in that same enviroment, running with the same crowd and living the same lifes, we might have behaved in exactly the same way.

Humans are very suseptible and weak creatures, easily led astray, all of us included.

[generalbulldog]

Academic studies have put the reason why these East Asian kids to having very low crime rates per their population and managing to get into these universities at high rates in the West are due to their cultural mindset, meaning Confucianism. A cultural mindset that lionizes education and a respect for law and authority. Nothing to do with agriculture or rice growing. And how is this cultural mindset pass down, well through parenting of course. Your buddy Miles who lives in Korea also notices and has even on more than one occasion said that the society there places such a huge emphasis on education and that the country has a very low crime rate. The same also applies to Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, and China. All countries that have a Confucian mindset. It's in the cultural values, and these cultural values are passed down from their parents to their children.

Parenting and cultural values plays a bigger role than any other outside factors. If mob mentality was the sole reason for every riot, then surely the Korean immigrants and other East Asians would also be looting and rioting in record numbers during the Los Angeles riots of 1992? But they didn't. And mind you the Los Angeles area has the largest East Asian population in the West.

The Jews, your favorite group also heavily emphasized education within their households and managed to rise up from the depths of poverty and out of the ghetto at the turn of the 20th century in America by having these cultural values instilled in their children, which was a heavy emphasis on education. So many of their children were in the top universities of America that these universities then implemented legacy admissions so WASP children would get a spot and possibly limiting the numbers of Jews. Hence, why you have so many of them today that have high paying white collar jobs.

Let's be honest, certain groups are able to rise up the socio-economic ladder in western countries and have a low crime rate per their population because of certain values placed inside the home no matter what the socio-economic condition they were in, and these values are passed down and taught from parent to children. Nothing more, nothing less. It all boils down to what happens inside the home.

[Ghost]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

The "Government" got it wrong a long time ago by listening to all them bleeding heart do-gooders in the past and this is part of the results. Bring back corporal punishment and see if things don't change.

[Gandalf]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

The "Government" got it wrong a long time ago by listening to all them bleeding heart do-gooders in the past and this is part of the results. Bring back corporal punishment and see if things don't change.

I agree, I think corporal punishment is a good idea.

[generalbulldog]

No, the government is getting it wrong and ignoring all the reasons behind why Britain is such a mess. Sure it might look good "Ooh, we are tough on rioters and those who raised people who would riot", but it's silly. The family are not to blame directly. Give the kid 2 years in prison and a prison without all the comforts that prisons have today. We need to be tough on crime once again and attacking extended family is not going about it in the right way.

Give police officers power, let teachers use a cane and stop giving council housing to teenage mothers. Things will start to change, these stop gap short term actions just piss off more of the vermin class riff raff. It solves nothing.

The "Government" got it wrong a long time ago by listening to all them bleeding heart do-gooders in the past and this is part of the results. Bring back corporal punishment and see if things don't change.

My parents were what you called "old school." They didn't tolerate any bullshit in the household. Didn't do our homework? Well here comes the cane and loss of privileges. Disrespecting our elders? 5 fingers across the face. I wanted a playstation game as a 16 year old? Get a summer job. Wanted a car? Get a job and at least pay for the insurance and they'll look into getting a used one. They also checked my grades along with my other siblings and what classes we were taking. Made sure we took AP classes, made sure we got on top of applying to the universities during our senior year of HS, etc. They also looked into who were our friends and whether or not they were good kids. They were very active in our lives. In short, they instilled morals and responsibilities in their kids. They didn't believe in all this time out bullshit that parents today are raising their kids. They didn't believe in letting the tv or internet or playstations raise their kids. Real old school.

Something that the bleeding hearts disagree with and believes that the parents are not to be held accountable for having a screw up kid. It's always someone else's fault, never the parents.