Fair or Not? Family gets evicted from council home because son was a rioter

[Andre]

Quick search reveals she owes £2000 in rent

and they refused six new playstations, as a down payment?

[Gandalf]

At the end of the day though, GB it IS his fault, but I don't think it falls primarily on the parents. You need to take SELF RESPONSIBILITY beyond a certain age and I would argue that this comes with the teenage years. If he commits wrong then throw the book at HIM. However, there are clearly factors at play in societies, which explains why middle class people perform better than working class people in schools and are typically more likely to 'succeed'. Kids on free meals typically perform far more poorly than their peers. These are facts and there are a variety of reasons for it. I would also argue that these people are more likely to resort to these kinds of anti social behaviour patterns. But I don't regard it as an excuse as I too am from that kind of background, but I learned from a relatively young age that the only way to escape was to study and try and better myself somehow. It didn't come from my mother nor my vanished father, it came from a realisation that I was responsible for my own future.

If you cannot display self responsibility and follow rules or laws then YOU need to pay the penalty, not your mother. However, as Fenster has said, she appears to be given the boot for a different reason so it isn't significant.

And GB, I agree that Asian societies have it better, the family unit is stronger. The kids study to an almost criminal degree at private academies and it does keep things safer. But if little Jin Su goes off and steals a motorbike (as they do), I am not going to blame his Mum. It's the little buggers fault, not his Mum. If you are old enough to steal a bike then you are old enough to pay the penalty. Even in Korea you see massive differences in the behaviour of kids according to social class definitions. They don't have mass teenage riots, but they do have their own social problems. In fact nowhere is quite like what the UK is today.

[Gandalf]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

[generalbulldog]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

[Gandalf]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

I don't really disagree with any of your views and think we of the same mindset. Totally agree.

[Fenster]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

I don't see how any of those changes were bad.

If a million people listen to a rap/rock song and one is inspired to murder because of it. He's a mental. Fact. The music/film/art isn't the problem.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

I don't see how any of those changes were bad.

If a million people listen to a rap/rock song and one is inspired to murder because of it. He's a mental. Fact. The music/film/art isn't the problem.

You're wrong. Fact.

Social factors play a series part in behaviour. The problem if you want to call it that is that there are many factors at work and not all will have the same impact as others.



Sun, sea and shrinking brain power - Telegraph


For men, this loss of intelligence may well be exacerbated by the vision of the opposite sex in bikinis. A 2008 study for The Journal of Consumer Research concluded that merely looking at women in beach garb “instigates generalised impatience in intertemporal choice”.
In layman’s terms, men’s judgment and self-critical faculties are compromised, and, in worst-case scenarios, they will propose to (or proposition) the first girl who winks at them.

Childhood Exposure To Media Violence Predicts Young Adult Aggressive Behavior, According To A New 15-Year Study

[mattboxingfan]

Shoot him.

[Fenster]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

I don't see how any of those changes were bad.

If a million people listen to a rap/rock song and one is inspired to murder because of it. He's a mental. Fact. The music/film/art isn't the problem.

You're wrong. Fact.

Social factors play a series part in behaviour. The problem if you want to call it that is that there are many factors at work and not all will have the same impact as others.



Sun, sea and shrinking brain power - Telegraph


For men, this loss of intelligence may well be exacerbated by the vision of the opposite sex in bikinis. A 2008 study for The Journal of Consumer Research concluded that merely looking at women in beach garb “instigates generalised impatience in intertemporal choice”.
In layman’s terms, men’s judgment and self-critical faculties are compromised, and, in worst-case scenarios, they will propose to (or proposition) the first girl who winks at them.

Childhood Exposure To Media Violence Predicts Young Adult Aggressive Behavior, According To A New 15-Year Study

Hilarious.

By observing 300 kids out of a world population of 6 billion, they've proved Starsky & Hutch fans are prone to driving offences and shoving.

Brilliant.

[CFH]

Having said that I think strong parenting would clearly help. But in somewhere as damaged as the UK, you need toughening up everywhere. Schools, communities, policing, everything. A strong mother alone is not going to be all that effective when it comes to a society like Britain. I'm actually quite conservative on this issue, I am not particularly liberal or namby pamby at all. But I do believe it is common sense to look at things from all points of view and clean things up from top to bottom.

Lack of good parenting is just one of the concerns, but cultural mindset is another. Western societies like the UK and America are missing good parenting in the household and are lionizing and embracing destructive cultural mindsets. Such as rock, rap, being a bad boy, lack of emphasis on education, lack of respect for authority and elders, etc.

I did type in the other thread that I found a quote from someone in the online news section that the counter culture revolution of the '60s and their rejection of the social mores and values of the prior generation also contributed to a decaying society. I haven't looked into it yet by searching for studies. But this would make sense since the '60s was about, "Fuck the man, fuck authority, fight the power, free love, etc." Looking back it was a decade of decadence and debauchery, from illicit drug use to open sex, etc. Not to mention in America the Hayes code for movies was lifted, meaning that they can show more explicit sex scenes and violence on television and movies. You can say the 60s really changed and shifted the conservative nature of societies like America and the UK into a radically different place. And maybe what we see today is a result of discarding many of the conservative social mores beginning in the 60s about behavior and respect.

I would actually argue that the long-term effects of the social movements of the 1960's were essentially a blip on the radar screen of American history and that they ultimately resulted in a shift to the right politically. At the most, they created polarization between 'left' and 'right', but the neo-con revolution and the rise of the new right, who have essentially held power in the United States since the late '60s, was a response to the movements of the 60's.

And I don;t think anyone should pretend that the 1940's or 1950's were some kind of glory days for morality. Those same movements of the 1960's were a direct result of the repression of women, minorities, homosexuals, and other groups which had occurred for centuries previous. The 1950's in America were probably great if you were a white male who aspired to work a 9-5 job, raise a family, and bang your secretary, but they were a pretty shitty time for everyone else.

I guess what I'm saying with that post is that everything is relative and that people always look back to 'the good old days', but that perception is often contradicted by reality.

If only my history degree was useful in some practical way; I wouldn't be posting on here at 10:30am.

[CFH]

I also think that it's too easy to just blame the parents for what is obviously a very complex social problem. Did parenting or home-life play a role in many cases? Most likely, but it can't be the only reason for the rioting. You can be raised in a perfect fashion, but if you can't find work or are being oppressed etc. you might act out with violence if tens of thousands of your peers are doing so.

[Ghost]

I also think that it's too easy to just blame the parents for what is obviously a very complex social problem. Did parenting or home-life play a role in many cases? Most likely, but it can't be the only reason for the rioting. You can be raised in a perfect fashion, but if you can't find work or are being oppressed etc. you might act out with violence if tens of thousands of your peers are doing so.

Peer pressure huh? Sorry but if tens of thousands of people my age were killing themselves, would not make me follow along to the grave.

Excuses are like assholes, Everyone has one and they use them often.

[AdamGB]

'as a mother, I am not responsible for my son's behaviour'

I agree with the first half of that statement.

[Ghost]

Quick search reveals she owes £2000 in rent

and they refused six new playstations, as a down payment?

Don't forget the 103cm Wide Screen Plasma.

[Saddo]

Quick search reveals she owes £2000 in rent

and they refused six new playstations, as a down payment?

hahahahahahahahaha