Youth culture - Race etc etc - David Starkey debate!

[El Kabong]

You can be poor and still have class...hence the saying "You can't buy class". You can be from the projects and still be intelligent or go to Harvard and be a dope. You can go from broke to a millionaire just like you can be handed more money than you could ever hope to spend and lose every dime of it for being an idiot. No one forces this culture on people sure it's out there, but you don't HAVE to submit to it.

[Spicoli]

You can be poor and still have class...hence the saying "You can't buy class". You can be from the projects and still be intelligent or go to Harvard and be a dope. You can go from broke to a millionaire just like you can be handed more money than you could ever hope to spend and lose every dime of it for being an idiot. No one forces this culture on people sure it's out there, but you don't HAVE to submit to it.

I just think its a disservice and broad brush to label it a 'cultural' problem. Its an ignorance problem. Not 'black' culture at all. Culture is what rises to the top and is born at roots and not what you see in its lowest form. I cant use the term culture to describe a guy speaking in broken slang and wearing his pants off his ass. No doubt character is a matter of pride and at the core of ones make up but when your in an environment where that is clearly the minority its overshadowed in group think. It may not be submitting for some so much as tolerating it and existing within. Like the projects. Those same intelligent people would bolt in an instant if they could. Ive seen guys break out of the pack and you talk to them on a one on one basis and they run deep and are not just stereotypes your thought going in.

[Dark Lord Al]

the bullshit thing about all this , its not black , white , jew , muslim , its about people breaking the law, whatever you are you should be treated harshly when you riot and cost the taxpayer money.
im fucking sick of people playing the race card , or making excuses for these people who break the law.

lets start looking after the people who keep the fucking ship afloat.

[El Kabong]

You can be poor and still have class...hence the saying "You can't buy class". You can be from the projects and still be intelligent or go to Harvard and be a dope. You can go from broke to a millionaire just like you can be handed more money than you could ever hope to spend and lose every dime of it for being an idiot. No one forces this culture on people sure it's out there, but you don't HAVE to submit to it.

I just think its a disservice and broad brush to label it a 'cultural' problem. Its an ignorance problem. Not 'black' culture at all. Culture is what rises to the top and is born at roots and not what you see in its lowest form. I cant use the term culture to describe a guy speaking in broken slang and wearing his pants off his ass. No doubt character is a matter of pride and at the core of ones make up but when your in an environment where that is clearly the minority its overshadowed in group think. It may not be submitting for some so much as tolerating it and existing within. Like the projects. Those same intelligent people would bolt in an instant if they could. Ive seen guys break out of the pack and you talk to them on a one on one basis and they run deep and are not just stereotypes your thought going in.

I never said it was "black culture" I said its a "cultural problem" and the culture I'm referring to is the culture of entitlement, the people that say "Gimme, gimme, gimme", "I want, I deserve", and yet offer no skills, no intelligence, and no positives to society. They are the leeches draining us dry off of food stamps, welfare, the war on poverty, the war on drugs...they see the Government extend a hand and they take the whole arm! They are the people living in grungy rundown trailers and houses while their brand damn new Escalade sits in the front yard/driveway on 22's, they are the people who buy and sell drugs with food stamps, they are the people who slide under the radar when it comes time to pay taxes, these are the people whose kids waste time, money, and effort in our public schools.

If I wasn't as educated as I am and if I didn't see the nature vs nurture argument as about a 50/50 shot, I just might go along with the idea of a eugenics program...not to wipe out a racial, ethnic, religious or political group but to wipe out these parasites, they provide no good to mankind, no good at all.

[Spicoli]

You can be poor and still have class...hence the saying "You can't buy class". You can be from the projects and still be intelligent or go to Harvard and be a dope. You can go from broke to a millionaire just like you can be handed more money than you could ever hope to spend and lose every dime of it for being an idiot. No one forces this culture on people sure it's out there, but you don't HAVE to submit to it.

I just think its a disservice and broad brush to label it a 'cultural' problem. Its an ignorance problem. Not 'black' culture at all. Culture is what rises to the top and is born at roots and not what you see in its lowest form. I cant use the term culture to describe a guy speaking in broken slang and wearing his pants off his ass. No doubt character is a matter of pride and at the core of ones make up but when your in an environment where that is clearly the minority its overshadowed in group think. It may not be submitting for some so much as tolerating it and existing within. Like the projects. Those same intelligent people would bolt in an instant if they could. Ive seen guys break out of the pack and you talk to them on a one on one basis and they run deep and are not just stereotypes your thought going in.

I never said it was "black culture" I said its a "cultural problem" and the culture I'm referring to is the culture of entitlement, the people that say "Gimme, gimme, gimme", "I want, I deserve", and yet offer no skills, no intelligence, and no positives to society. They are the leeches draining us dry off of food stamps, welfare, the war on poverty, the war on drugs...they see the Government extend a hand and they take the whole arm! They are the people living in grungy rundown trailers and houses while their brand damn new Escalade sits in the front yard/driveway on 22's, they are the people who buy and sell drugs with food stamps, they are the people who slide under the radar when it comes time to pay taxes, these are the people whose kids waste time, money, and effort in our public schools.

If I wasn't as educated as I am and if I didn't see the nature vs nurture argument as about a 50/50 shot, I just might go along with the idea of a eugenics program...not to wipe out a racial, ethnic, religious or political group but to wipe out these parasites, they provide no good to mankind, no good at all.

The reference was to the initial speaker and mention in the OP's link. I don't think many people at all take time to draw a distinction between culture of race and plain societal problems that cut across many lines.

I'm no defender of people manipulating a flawed system and come from a background of help yourself first and foremost before looking to others. Not all individuals on welfare are the leeches or live a culture of entitlement looking to be content and I see far more broken up Honda Accords and rust buckets than I do Escalades rolling on 22's in front of rundown trailers but it happens. Ones that merely exist on the system without utilizing the chance to better themselves frankly have no pride and will certainly pass it down to offspring. What you end up with is the Government acting as the guardian of the same parents who are failing their kids. Often its a massive transition period for others on welfare and a kick to pride. Living on a diet of Top roman noodles and turkey franks surely is zero fun. Takes time.

Eugenics has been tried for all the wrong reasons, I too am glad you are educated enough to not believe that a solution.

[El Kabong]

Spicoli I only even mention eugenics in frustration just to reassure everyone that I'm 100% (some days 98%) certain its a horrible idea.

As for the looters being poverty stricken, that's preposterous Spicoli! Had they been dirt poor then giant tvs, video gaming systems, and smart phones wouldn't have been first on their lists as they require money to operate!

My Aunt is an RN in rural SC and she sees teenagers give birth (multiple times), the O.R. full of relatives standing around waiting for an opportunity to sue the hospital and nobody pays.

[Spicoli]

Spicoli I only even mention eugenics in frustration just to reassure everyone that I'm 100% (some days 98%) certain its a horrible idea.

As for the looters being poverty stricken, that's preposterous Spicoli! Had they been dirt poor then giant tvs, video gaming systems, and smart phones wouldn't have been first on their lists as they require money to operate!

My Aunt is an RN in rural SC and she sees teenagers give birth (multiple times), the O.R. full of relatives standing around waiting for an opportunity to sue the hospital and nobody pays.

Ok, your turn. I'm not for for a minute excusing people making anarchy into oppurtunity for quick riches in the case of across the pond. Like I first stated I know nothing as to how the racial issues, riots break down first hand.

I can say I've seen people, mostly young, from the projects and some suburbs stream into Sams Club, Wal Mart, Payless etc and do that exact thing. Tragedy turned oppurtunity and the worst in all rise to the top and get over. Trunk loads of shoes and gear and systems....why? Mostly for resale and ill gotten profit. 'Poor' does not mean you dont have electricity. The next day I see others pull up and take nothing but diapers, can goods and water. Of course the circumstances and chaos were very much different but looting none the less.

Given the situation I'd throw away the key on one...and look the other way on the other. Guess I'm off topic in regards to THIS riot and looting, but it never ceases to amaze what you see when the worst comes out.