Rioting scum causes and solutions

[Andre]

Interesting point Ghost, I wonder what the maximum ammount of conceptions an average guy could possibly make in a life time?

Ask CMM His other thread ,says something like 48 motions towards a conception have been successfully made in a month, so far.

[Kev]

This thread is ridiculous. Your 'solutions' are just stupid rants.

Forced abortions, forced national service, are these your serious ideas and beliefs or just angry soundbites?

How could Cameron possibly introduce forced abortions for young parents? The entire world would be up in arms, there would be worldwide condemnation and we'd become social pariah's alongside Iran and Syria. The policy would never make it past the House of Lords anyway and the public would go mental. It's simply an imbecilic comment.

Forced national service. Good luck selling that one to the people. The government has already been forced to climb down on prison reform, selling the forest, and restructuring the NHS. How in the world would they ever be able to convince today's youth, and their parents that they should give up two years of their life, in peace time, to perform national service? It simply could not happen, it would never in a million years make it past the ideas stage.

We live in a democracy yet you want dictatorial rule with our leaders ushering in controverisal and shocking policies and presumably ignoring any dissenting voices, or maybe finding ways to silence them for good.


There are many causes for the riots, and all far more complex than an pea brained, angry ranting mind can be bothered to try and comprehend.

The class divide for one. The UK has one of the lowest Gini coefficient (distribution of wealth) scores in the entire developed world. In the whole of Europe only Portugal has a more uneven distribution of income than Britain. There are whole communities of disaffected and angry youths, marginalised by society with no hope for a better future.

The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

There are serious, longterm problems in our society and way of life that are at the heart of the problems we have today. Simply punishing the wrongdoers and trying to act more harshly and oppressively will not work. It's like just stick another band-aid on an amputed arm and expecting it to heal this time.

[Andre]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

[Andre]

Meanwhile :

[Kev]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

I'm not knocking gay rights here or blaming it on them Andre. What I am saying is that, in the name of equality, over the last 30 years it has become progressively more unacceptable to state that the traditional nuclear family, married mother and father raising their children, in a pair bond that is supposed to be for life, is the best way to raise a family.

Thank's to equality, to suggest this discriminates against homosexuals, single parents, long term cohabiting and more casual relationships. This flippant attitude to relationships, and sex in our increasingly permissive society, has led to literally millions of families that are either completely absent of a father, or less often a mother, or incredibly commonly children within a relationship that is no more than boyfiren/girlfriend, without the longterm, serious commitment and permanence that marriage provides.

The nuclear family is the foundation of our society. Take it away and families deteriorate, and ultimately society will too.

Make no mistake our country is in a perilous state. No respect for religion, no respect for the longstanding institutions that form the bedrock of our society, monarchy, government, judical system, police etc. We have little in the way of shared culture or anything beyond tribal allegiance to football teams to unite and bind us. Sexual morals have gone down the toilet, the inevitable unwanted offspring this has brought usually aborted, or else kept in exchange for a house. Art and music culture has become increasingly decadant and vulgar.

When you look through all of human history, when societies have reached this stage they do not long survive. People have a mistaken belief in permanence, thinking that nations, institutions, beliefs etc are all fixed. But they are not. We are likely to witness the catastrophic breakdown of our, and other societies in our very lifetimes.

When society abandons its values, cultural heritage, the belief in certain moral truth's and acceptable forms of behaviour, it ceases to be a functionable society.

[Kev]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

Just to respond directly to this. People no longer work at marraige precisely because it has been devalued to the point where it is no longer important. It wasn't that long ago that having a divorce was seen as socially unnactable, a stigma, children out of marriage also. Nowadays people are surprised if a couple are still together after 10 years! There is simply no longer any need to work at marriages because if you aren't happy you can fuck off, get a divorce and get with somebody else, and nobody can judge you, because your personal happiness is the most important thing, and you must be true to yourself.

This is the mindset and world that the liberals have wrought.


As for blaming the government. Of course you can! They along with the media, the newspapers, philosophers, artist, film and music industries, advertising industries all shoulder the blame, as does the church for being so wishy washy and watering down family values rather than causing a clash with the new morality.

Marriage just doesn't mean much any more. It used to be a lifelong commitment to your spouse, to love, until death, and to raise a family together, secure in that unit. Amazingly, most people actually believed that and took the vows seriously once.

Now it's a nice social occasion, a romantic gesture and a fun period of your life that can be undone in a few years once the mundane realities of a humdrum life with commitments has bored you and got you restless. Then it's the right and proper thing to divorce and move on as you both have a right to be happy after all.

It's a seismic shift in human values and as society is comprised of family units, such a shift will inevitably have ramifications throughout society.

[Andre]

Follow the leader then .

I suppose you're right, greed at the top, creates greed at the bottom which is wanting more for less effort right on down though society. Marriage doesnt survive that from either one of the partners.

I know of heaps of happily married couples and a few not married but with grown families all with very well balanced kids all very long term units and we are under a Liberal Gov. Then there is also the same good family units under Labour too, when they get in here. But Im with Chickened like he said in the other post: Loving direction from an elder usually conquers all this stuff.

[Toffeefist]

Hey bilbo It's knob head soft leftist views like you have is why this place is so fucked!!

Enforced work in jail 1 to educate 2 to help pay for their keep.

Priority for workers over lazy sponging chavs

Lazy sponging chavs to work for their benefits if they cannot find work

National service for 17 to 19 year olds who cannot find alternitive employment

We were a democratic nation when the first and second world wars kicked off. It's a fucking good Job
You wasn't our primeminister when that kicked off eh!

Marrage doesn't even come into it and neither do shirtlifters it's about having a sense of responsibility!

[Kev]

Hey bilbo It's knob head soft leftist views like you have is why this place is so fucked!!

Enforced work in jail 1 to educate 2 to help pay for their keep.

Priority for workers over lazy sponging chavs

Lazy sponging chavs to work for their benefits if they cannot find work

National service for 17 to 19 year olds who cannot find alternitive employment

We were a democratic nation when the first and second world wars kicked off. It's a fucking good Job
You wasn't our primeminister when that kicked off eh!

Marrage doesn't even come into it and neither do shirtlifters it's about having a sense of responsibility!

Sorry, but it's hard to take seriously admonishments from someone whose spelling is so poor, he clearly must be part of the 60% white working class schoolboys in this country who have a writing age of seven.

You say my 'leftist' views, I'm actually conservative to the core, which means traditional values, personal responsiblity and respect for religion, monarchy, democratic government and family values.

Incidently, these are exactly the values that united us all during the period of the first and second world wars, and it is precisely the absence of these today that has created the culture we have now.

Without wishing to be too harsh on you, your post suggests to me that you are more part of the problem, a product of our society's inability to teach kids basic language and thinking skills so that they can function effectively as adults.

[Ghost]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

[Toffeefist]

Whist one feels sorry for people growing up in dysfunctional families, it should not then be the responsibilities of the responsible to pay for it.
I and my brothers were brought up by a single parent (father) on a rough council estate. My eldest brother is a phsycoligist, my other brother is a director of a company that manufactures landing gear for commercial aircraft I have recently sold my large house in London.
I sold because I was in and out of work, so I sold it and moved elsewhere, so I would not have to depend on benefits to support my child and immigrant wife.
My wife thinks that Britain is a soft touch, so do all her friends. WE ARE!!
It's time to get tough on crime,
Tough on chavs, tough on spongers and National service is just one positive step in the right direction.
Immigration should be banned for the low skilled as it is the low skilled jobs that our own school leavers, and people who want to get off benefits, are competing with.