Rioting scum causes and solutions

[Andre]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

[Andre]

Meanwhile :

[Kev]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

I'm not knocking gay rights here or blaming it on them Andre. What I am saying is that, in the name of equality, over the last 30 years it has become progressively more unacceptable to state that the traditional nuclear family, married mother and father raising their children, in a pair bond that is supposed to be for life, is the best way to raise a family.

Thank's to equality, to suggest this discriminates against homosexuals, single parents, long term cohabiting and more casual relationships. This flippant attitude to relationships, and sex in our increasingly permissive society, has led to literally millions of families that are either completely absent of a father, or less often a mother, or incredibly commonly children within a relationship that is no more than boyfiren/girlfriend, without the longterm, serious commitment and permanence that marriage provides.

The nuclear family is the foundation of our society. Take it away and families deteriorate, and ultimately society will too.

Make no mistake our country is in a perilous state. No respect for religion, no respect for the longstanding institutions that form the bedrock of our society, monarchy, government, judical system, police etc. We have little in the way of shared culture or anything beyond tribal allegiance to football teams to unite and bind us. Sexual morals have gone down the toilet, the inevitable unwanted offspring this has brought usually aborted, or else kept in exchange for a house. Art and music culture has become increasingly decadant and vulgar.

When you look through all of human history, when societies have reached this stage they do not long survive. People have a mistaken belief in permanence, thinking that nations, institutions, beliefs etc are all fixed. But they are not. We are likely to witness the catastrophic breakdown of our, and other societies in our very lifetimes.

When society abandons its values, cultural heritage, the belief in certain moral truth's and acceptable forms of behaviour, it ceases to be a functionable society.

[Kev]

I agree Bilbo on all you say there, but have to call some bull shit on this... The breakdown of the family unit. The liberal obsession with promoting gay equality, and single parent equality has denigrated the role of marriage so much that half the people of Britain no longer even consider it meaningful or important. It's had a catastrophic impact on our society.

Marriages dont fail because of those reasons and families dont break down because of those reasons.Ithink the real reason behind family values being down is the lazy way out in society of allowing your children to raise themselves combined with the anger passed down from generation to generation.

Marriage fails because couples dont work at the marriage; they expect it to be something it is not, it is a partnership and if their kids see that it is not a partnership then they dont want to form one themselves with the added legal attachment.

You cant blame a governments backing of equal rights for gays to have effected mans inherent laziness to not want to be the sole responsibly of their own childrens upbringing.Its all starts at home and it all ends up out in the streets.

The rest of the excuses for why, are just that.When blame gets put onto others outside of the family then it diminishes personal responsibility even further and allows the whole thing to continue.
People take sides..then do nothing but whinge about the other side of their one eyed views. Meanwhile real love orientated people raise their children correctly and millions of these are not church goers or educational wizards they just get on with the job and do it lovingly because they love their kids.

Just to respond directly to this. People no longer work at marraige precisely because it has been devalued to the point where it is no longer important. It wasn't that long ago that having a divorce was seen as socially unnactable, a stigma, children out of marriage also. Nowadays people are surprised if a couple are still together after 10 years! There is simply no longer any need to work at marriages because if you aren't happy you can fuck off, get a divorce and get with somebody else, and nobody can judge you, because your personal happiness is the most important thing, and you must be true to yourself.

This is the mindset and world that the liberals have wrought.


As for blaming the government. Of course you can! They along with the media, the newspapers, philosophers, artist, film and music industries, advertising industries all shoulder the blame, as does the church for being so wishy washy and watering down family values rather than causing a clash with the new morality.

Marriage just doesn't mean much any more. It used to be a lifelong commitment to your spouse, to love, until death, and to raise a family together, secure in that unit. Amazingly, most people actually believed that and took the vows seriously once.

Now it's a nice social occasion, a romantic gesture and a fun period of your life that can be undone in a few years once the mundane realities of a humdrum life with commitments has bored you and got you restless. Then it's the right and proper thing to divorce and move on as you both have a right to be happy after all.

It's a seismic shift in human values and as society is comprised of family units, such a shift will inevitably have ramifications throughout society.

[Andre]

Follow the leader then .

I suppose you're right, greed at the top, creates greed at the bottom which is wanting more for less effort right on down though society. Marriage doesnt survive that from either one of the partners.

I know of heaps of happily married couples and a few not married but with grown families all with very well balanced kids all very long term units and we are under a Liberal Gov. Then there is also the same good family units under Labour too, when they get in here. But Im with Chickened like he said in the other post: Loving direction from an elder usually conquers all this stuff.

[Toffeefist]

Hey bilbo It's knob head soft leftist views like you have is why this place is so fucked!!

Enforced work in jail 1 to educate 2 to help pay for their keep.

Priority for workers over lazy sponging chavs

Lazy sponging chavs to work for their benefits if they cannot find work

National service for 17 to 19 year olds who cannot find alternitive employment

We were a democratic nation when the first and second world wars kicked off. It's a fucking good Job
You wasn't our primeminister when that kicked off eh!

Marrage doesn't even come into it and neither do shirtlifters it's about having a sense of responsibility!

[Kev]

Hey bilbo It's knob head soft leftist views like you have is why this place is so fucked!!

Enforced work in jail 1 to educate 2 to help pay for their keep.

Priority for workers over lazy sponging chavs

Lazy sponging chavs to work for their benefits if they cannot find work

National service for 17 to 19 year olds who cannot find alternitive employment

We were a democratic nation when the first and second world wars kicked off. It's a fucking good Job
You wasn't our primeminister when that kicked off eh!

Marrage doesn't even come into it and neither do shirtlifters it's about having a sense of responsibility!

Sorry, but it's hard to take seriously admonishments from someone whose spelling is so poor, he clearly must be part of the 60% white working class schoolboys in this country who have a writing age of seven.

You say my 'leftist' views, I'm actually conservative to the core, which means traditional values, personal responsiblity and respect for religion, monarchy, democratic government and family values.

Incidently, these are exactly the values that united us all during the period of the first and second world wars, and it is precisely the absence of these today that has created the culture we have now.

Without wishing to be too harsh on you, your post suggests to me that you are more part of the problem, a product of our society's inability to teach kids basic language and thinking skills so that they can function effectively as adults.

[Ghost]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

[Kev]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

[Ghost]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Was wondering if all your comments on this issue are based from personal experience or from what you read and hear in the news?

[Andre]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Bilbo you've forgotten to put a capital A at the start of a sentence.

You see,right there,big part of the problem, punctuation / education.

What next, your spelling? Next you'll be thinking people should really have to put in back to society and pay for their own actions and weight. God for forbid.

[Kev]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Was wondering if all your comments on this issue are based from personal experience or from what you read and hear in the news?

Personal experience of what? Growing up in a dysfunctional family with no moral values, little education, no prospects for a better future, and bitterness and hostility towards sharing the cultural values of a society, that fails to provide the same benefits to me and my disenfranchised kind as it does the wealthier members of the population?

Or of being a married family man, with sons and daughters who have either grown up rebellious and disrespectful and took place in the riots, or else grew up healthy and respectufl, in a loving, generous and warm family enviroment and who are raised to have respect for the traditional values?

I'm just not quite sure which of those experiences you think I needed for my views to have validity?

The fact is people can be angry about the rioters and that's fine. But presenting national service, forced abortions and the universal withdrawal of wellfare for those not working is just a lot of nonsense that could never actually happen.

You want to stop people opting out of society and sharing society's values, then you need to close the gap of wealth distribution, which is one of the widest in the whole developed world. You need to raise kids that can read, write, are trained for the workplace, have stable homes, with supporting parents and who have things to be proud about. Self worth and hope for the future is essential in being a productive person.

Instilling these things goes deeper than just relying on the personal ability of indivudal parents. Individuals follow society, cultural norms and values are passed down from the top and filter through to the whole population.

The greed of the looters isn't confined to the working class, it's endemic at the very top. Mp's fiddling expenses, bankers bonuses, illegal hacking, the whole our society's morality, from top to bottom has been fucked up. It's universal and the system is broken, to soley blame individual rioters and looters is simply blinkered.

Today's youth are the crop society has sown. When a lot of them grow up rebellious, uncaring, with no respect for law and values, then just like in nature, it's the farmers fault. If somebody has a crop of terrible potato's then it's not the potato's fault but the conditions in which they were grown. If you want to only punish the product then you are a fool.

[Ghost]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Was wondering if all your comments on this issue are based from personal experience or from what you read and hear in the news?

Personal experience of what? Growing up in a dysfunctional family with no moral values, little education, no prospects for a better future, and bitterness and hostility towards sharing the cultural values of a society, that fails to provide the same benefits to me and my disenfranchised kind as it does the wealthier members of the population?

Or of being a married family man, with sons and daughters who have either grown up rebellious and disrespectful and took place in the riots, or else grew up healthy and respectufl, in a loving, generous and warm family enviroment and who are raised to have respect for the traditional values?

I'm just not quite sure which of those experiences you think I needed for my views to have validity?

The fact is people can be angry about the rioters and that's fine. But presenting national service, forced abortions and the universal withdrawal of wellfare for those not working is just a lot of nonsense that could never actually happen.

You want to stop people opting out of society and sharing society's values, then you need to close the gap of wealth distribution, which is one of the widest in the whole developed world. You need to raise kids that can read, write, are trained for the workplace, have stable homes, with supporting parents and who have things to be proud about. Self worth and hope for the future is essential in being a productive person.

Instilling these things goes deeper than just relying on the personal ability of indivudal parents. Individuals follow society, cultural norms and values are passed down from the top and filter through to the whole population.

The greed of the looters isn't confined to the working class, it's endemic at the very top. Mp's fiddling expenses, bankers bonuses, illegal hacking, the whole our society's morality, from top to bottom has been fucked up. It's universal and the system is broken, to soley blame individual rioters and looters is simply blinkered.

Hmmm, testy today.

Did not say your view(s) were invalid.

Just asked a question. Seems like you have a "hate on" for me. (That's Cool)

Mostly I have stayed out this thread, only the odd joke or comment.

You can go back to your rantings now.

[Andre]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Was wondering if all your comments on this issue are based from personal experience or from what you read and hear in the news?

Personal experience of what? Growing up in a dysfunctional family with no moral values, little education, no prospects for a better future, and bitterness and hostility towards sharing the cultural values of a society, that fails to provide the same benefits to me and my disenfranchised kind as it does the wealthier members of the population?

Or of being a married family man, with sons and daughters who have either grown up rebellious and disrespectful and took place in the riots, or else grew up healthy and respectufl, in a loving, generous and warm family enviroment and who are raised to have respect for the traditional values?

I'm just not quite sure which of those experiences you think I needed for my views to have validity?

The fact is people can be angry about the rioters and that's fine. But presenting national service, forced abortions and the universal withdrawal of wellfare for those not working is just a lot of nonsense that could never actually happen.

You want to stop people opting out of society and sharing society's values, then you need to close the gap of wealth distribution, which is one of the widest in the whole developed world. You need to raise kids that can read, write, are trained for the workplace, have stable homes, with supporting parents and who have things to be proud about. Self worth and hope for the future is essential in being a productive person.

Instilling these things goes deeper than just relying on the personal ability of indivudal parents. Individuals follow society, cultural norms and values are passed down from the top and filter through to the whole population.

The greed of the looters isn't confined to the working class, it's endemic at the very top. Mp's fiddling expenses, bankers bonuses, illegal hacking, the whole our society's morality, from top to bottom has been fucked up. It's universal and the system is broken, to soley blame individual rioters and looters is simply blinkered.

Today's youth are the crop society has sown. When a lot of them grow up rebellious, uncaring, with no respect for law and values, then just like in nature, it's the farmers fault. If somebody has a crop of terrible potato's then it's not the potato's fault but the conditions in which they were grown. If you want to only punish the product then you are a fool.

Who made you King then?

[Kev]

How long have you been married Bilbo?


How many kids?

and your point is?

Bilbo you've forgotten to put a capital A at the start of a sentence.

You see,right there,big part of the problem, punctuation / education.

What next, your spelling? Next you'll be thinking people should really have to put in back to society and pay for their own actions and weight. God for forbid.

Education is critical actually. Did you know that in the UK 60% of working class white 14 year olds have a reading age of 7? What hope is there of the majority of these kid's having succesful careers?

30% of the UK's total wealth belongs to the top 5% of the population. It's one of the worst distributions of wealth in the developed world, Greece scores higher than us.

Many of the children in inner cities grow up with no father at all, or in dysfunctional, often violent and drug addicted households.

Prison holds no fear because for many it's actually prefarable to life on the streets.

The thing is people like to moan and bitch and make clueless uninformed demands that are just pathetic when you actually look into the problems.