Who is the tougher opponent, Ortiz or Marquez?

[miron_lang]

Marquez

- dominated by Floyd
-Will be competitive against Pac at any weight
-Beats Ortiz @135 Gets Kayoed @147


Ortiz

-Gets dominated by Floyd UD possibly KO
-Gets dominated by Pac KO possibly UD
-Kayoes Marquez @147, loses @135


Marquez p4p



Different sized fighters.

Marquez 1st division 126
Ortiz 1st division 140



I'll bet on Marquez @138 CW

[Gandalf]

Marquez is an unknown at these weights, he fought the best and looked very average. Ortiz fought a top fighter and won a tough fight.

Ortiz is clearly the bigger opponent, but Marquez has the pedigree. It's a guess as to who is tougher because of the different styles and variables.

I think Mayweather has more chance of stopping Ortiz than he did Marquez.

[Rantcatrat]

Just to clarify, I meant to say, will Ortiz be tougher for Mayweather or will Marquez be tougher for Pacquiao?

[fan johnny]

I suppose that question is to be addressed when Ortiz steps into the ring with Mayweather. Putting in the weight-class as a criteria, Marquez is proven no question.

[Master]

Marquez and it's not debatable.

Ortiz and it is not debatable.

[Pugilistic]

P4P Marquez is a better fighter than Ortiz but how good is he at welterweight.

His only fight at welterweight against Floyd Mayweather, he looked terrible. Being that it was Floyd though, you could point to it being more of a bad matchup for him than the weight or a combination of both.

One thing was clear in that fight was Marquez didn't have power. Mayweather laughed at his punches and i think in his previous fights with Pacquiao that the reason he had so much success was because he was able to get Pacquiao to respect his punching power combined with the fact he had excellent timing, good footwork and he could land in combinations.

What we do know about Ortiz is that his speed, size, ability and most importantly his power have carried up to welterweight and as proof, he is coming off his best win against a top welterweight in Berto who he beat decisively.

Based on their credentials at welterweight, Ortiz is the tougher opponent but if Marquez is able to perform against Pacquiao like he did in their previous fights, he's the tougher opponent.

[Rantcatrat]

P4P Marquez is a better fighter than Ortiz but how good is he at welterweight.

His only fight at welterweight against Floyd Mayweather, he looked terrible. Being that it was Floyd though, you could point to it being more of a bad matchup for him than the weight or a combination of both.

One thing was clear in that fight was Marquez didn't have power. Mayweather laughed at his punches and i think in his previous fights with Pacquiao that the reason he had so much success was because he was able to get Pacquiao to respect his punching power combined with the fact he had excellent timing, good footwork and he could land in combinations.

What we do know about Ortiz is that his speed, size, ability and most importantly his power have carried up to welterweight and as proof, he is coming off his best win against a top welterweight in Berto who he beat decisively.

Based on their credentials at welterweight, Ortiz is the tougher opponent but if Marquez is able to perform against Pacquiao like he did in their previous fights, he's the tougher opponent.

Did Marquez hit Mayweather once during that whole fight? He's hit Pacquiao before and I believe he'll hit Pacqiuao again, not enough to win, but enough to make it interesting for a few rounds.

[Pugilistic]

P4P Marquez is a better fighter than Ortiz but how good is he at welterweight.

His only fight at welterweight against Floyd Mayweather, he looked terrible. Being that it was Floyd though, you could point to it being more of a bad matchup for him than the weight or a combination of both.

One thing was clear in that fight was Marquez didn't have power. Mayweather laughed at his punches and i think in his previous fights with Pacquiao that the reason he had so much success was because he was able to get Pacquiao to respect his punching power combined with the fact he had excellent timing, good footwork and he could land in combinations.

What we do know about Ortiz is that his speed, size, ability and most importantly his power have carried up to welterweight and as proof, he is coming off his best win against a top welterweight in Berto who he beat decisively.

Based on their credentials at welterweight, Ortiz is the tougher opponent but if Marquez is able to perform against Pacquiao like he did in their previous fights, he's the tougher opponent.

Did Marquez hit Mayweather once during that whole fight? He's hit Pacquiao before and I believe he'll hit Pacqiuao again, not enough to win, but enough to make it interesting for a few rounds.

He was able to hit him clean a few times and when he did, Mayweather laughed them off.

He won't have as much trouble hitting Pacquiao but will he be able to keep Pacquiao away hesitant from coming forward like he did in their other fights ? i don't think so.

[Mars_ax]

Ortiz, the young southpaw, coming off a career-defining win over highly-touted Andre Berto or Marquez, the future HOF, one of the top Mexican fighters of all time, and who has given Pacquiao fits in the two times they faced eachother?

I expect "Surfer Vic" Ortiz to give Duckweather fits, but I don't expect Manny to have any problems with JMM, this isn't the same 2 pugs who fought before, Manny is much better now.

[Rantcatrat]

Ortiz is coming off his best win and I believe that is why people think he has any chance in this fight because if you had asked anyone prior to the Berto fight if Ortiz versus Mayweather was even a possiblility, let alone that it has the chance to be at all competitive, it would have been laughed off. Not to beat a dead horse, but this is a guy who quit against a crude slugger in Maidana and looked average against Peterson. Now to forget those fights, and to think he has even a chance against perhaps the greatest fighter of our generation because he beat Andre Berto to me is a mistake. I just don't see it.

Is it possible I'm overrating Mayweather? Certainly. Is he really not as good as he's made out to be? Possible. Because if it is the same Mayweather that is highly regarded in so many boxing circles, I don't think Victor Ortiz stands a chance.

In Marquez, it is possible that he has a chance because he has made both of his fights with Pacquiao very competitive. Marquez will still be able to time Pacquiao and counter Pacquiao. I believe you are right though, at this weight, his punches aren't as powerful, and at this age, his reflexes weren't quite what they were, and that is why Pacquiao should win. However, I guarantee Marquez times Pacquiao with a number of solid counter shots that make the fight interesting at spots.

Interestingly, Nazim Richardson had a different take on it. When asked who would win between Ortiz and Mayweather, he wouldn't answer the question, but he repeated that Ortiz already won considering his background and that he grew up homeless on the streets and now he is getting a pay day against Mayweather. ESNEWS's Channel - YouTube

[Mars_ax]

Ortiz is coming off his best win and I believe that is why people think he has any chance in this fight because if you had asked anyone prior to the Berto fight if Ortiz versus Mayweather was even a possiblility, let alone that it has the chance to be at all competitive, it would have been laughed off. Not to beat a dead horse, but this is a guy who quit against a crude slugger in Maidana and looked average against Peterson. Now to forget those fights, and to think he has even a chance against perhaps the greatest fighter of our generation because he beat Andre Berto to me is a mistake. I just don't see it.

Is it possible I'm overrating Mayweather? Certainly. Is he really not as good as he's made out to be? Possible. Because if it is the same Mayweather that is highly regarded in so many boxing circles, I don't think Victor Ortiz stands a chance.

In Marquez, it is possible that he has a chance because he has made both of his fights with Pacquiao very competitive. Marquez will still be able to time Pacquiao and counter Pacquiao. I believe you are right though, at this weight, his punches aren't as powerful, and at this age, his reflexes weren't quite what they were, and that is why Pacquiao should win. However, I guarantee Marquez times Pacquiao with a number of solid counter shots that make the fight interesting at spots.

Interestingly, Nazim Richardson had a different take on it. When asked who would win between Ortiz and Mayweather, he wouldn't answer the question, but he repeated that Ortiz already won considering his background and that he grew up homeless on the streets and now he is getting a pay day against Mayweather. ESNEWS's Channel - YouTube

Good points RantCat, I just don't see Pac-JMM being competitive, whereas, i'm really expecting Ortiz to present Mayweather with some problems. I'm not persay, saying Victor will win, but it could be a close fight that could go either way and I don't see Floyd dominating like he usually does in the final rounds.

[xtianco]

for me its marquez.. in the third match.. it will be a awesome fight..

[Jody Lane]

Personally I think Ortiz because I think he is gonna take Mayweather out. I see history repeating itself again as in 1991 and 2003/4. In 1991 Sugar Ray Leonard came out of almost 2 years of inactivity and got scrambled by Terry Norris. In 2003/2004 Roy Jones Jr who was thought unbeatable was lucky to escape with a win then taken out in 2 rounds by Antonio Tarver.

Both Leonard and Jones relied on incredible speed and when they slowed half a step in seemed they were highly beatable. Mayweather I believe will meet the same fate on September 17th.

As i have said many times before, just my opinion--I may be wrong (and have been many times here in the last 8 years).

[Rantcatrat]

Personally I think Ortiz because I think he is gonna take Mayweather out. I see history repeating itself again as in 1991 and 2003/4. In 1991 Sugar Ray Leonard came out of almost 2 years of inactivity and got scrambled by Terry Norris. In 2003/2004 Roy Jones Jr who was thought unbeatable was lucky to escape with a win then taken out in 2 rounds by Antonio Tarver.

Both Leonard and Jones relied on incredible speed and when they slowed half a step in seemed they were highly beatable. Mayweather I believe will meet the same fate on September 17th.

As i have said many times before, just my opinion--I may be wrong (and have been many times here in the last 8 years).

Do you believe Mayweather relies on speed or athleticism in the same way Jones did?

[Jody Lane]

Personally I think Ortiz because I think he is gonna take Mayweather out. I see history repeating itself again as in 1991 and 2003/4. In 1991 Sugar Ray Leonard came out of almost 2 years of inactivity and got scrambled by Terry Norris. In 2003/2004 Roy Jones Jr who was thought unbeatable was lucky to escape with a win then taken out in 2 rounds by Antonio Tarver.

Both Leonard and Jones relied on incredible speed and when they slowed half a step in seemed they were highly beatable. Mayweather I believe will meet the same fate on September 17th.

As i have said many times before, just my opinion--I may be wrong (and have been many times here in the last 8 years).

Do you believe Mayweather relies on speed or athleticism in the same way Jones did?

I think that both always came in at the best possible shape, but both used their speed as their great equalizer. But I think that Mayweather is better all around fighter than Jones was in terms of technique and skill. But unless he has a plan B for somehow fighting Ortiz totally on the inside and using subtle head movement to make Ortiz miss, I think he is going to slow down over night and be a sitting duck. I am using boxing history as my guide and my feeling that he may have taken too long a vacation this time. Just my thoughts. I think he should be studying films of Archie Moore right now. And in case any one wonders about another fighter linked to Mayweather, I think Pac has been spoon fed enough lately that he may be in trouble in November. If you didn't have the knockdowns in the first two fights, JMM would have won them. Forget the weight difference. On a skill level JMM may just be the better boxer.