Muhammed Ali - The Greatest

[RohanKnight]

mmm, Ali kind of started his championship career in the deep end, and thats an understatement.

At 22 he was facing Sonny Liston, and remember this Liston guy was seen as invincible and had twice destroyed THE legitimate UNDISPUTED world champion (Patterson, who won the title younger than even Tyson!), and from whom Rocky Marciano had run shitscared from.

NOW - Think about that for a moment, Marciano is a pretty much an ATG and is tough as nails as BrocktonBusterBloodvessel has gone to great lengths to point out... and he was shitscared of the guy that Ali (barely a modern day adult as 22) EASILY beat!

This was not even Alis best, he just got better in the next few years. Those early defences were just as amazing - destroying legit world champions Ellis, Patterson and Terrell, and making monkeys of the hardest hitters or toughest fighters of the time (Cleveland Williams, George Chuvalo). He went literally whole fights where his opponent never landed a solid blow on him, and we are talking about legit number one challengers, not fighting bums for ten years like some fighters do these days - Ali wouldnt spend more than one fight with a bum (there was only one 'bum' british champion Brian London, in that early reign, who later pointed out that he was sure he never contributed to Ali's Parkinsons, since he never actually hit Ali in their fight!) , let alone ten years of them to pad out an 'undefeated record'.

[frasd]

I am not undermining the Rock's talent but how great would Rocky vs Chavalo had been? Rocky was by far a better fighter and I know I'm biased being Canadian but don't see George being knocked down let alone out.

[Saddo]

I know who I pick as the best of the 2.....


Debatable Marciano's top 4 names he won against...

better at the lower weights... Ezzard Charles who went on to fight another 23 times losing 13 of them
Rex Layne went on to fight 9 more times losing 5 of them
Joe Louis comming out of retirement to pay the tax man... pointless win on a par with Holmes ali and and Tyson Holmes.
39 year old Jersey Joe Walcott

retired undefeated after defending his title whole 6 time

Debatable Ali's top 4 fighters he won against...

Sonny Liston monster for his weight and went on to fight 16 more fights losing only once

Joe Fraizer

George Foreman went on to fight 6 more times losing only once then coming back to fight to fight another 34 times losing 3 times

Floyd Patterson went on to fight 16 more times losing 3 times one of them being to ali again

Ali fought on far to long prob should have retired after the 3rd Fraizer fight IMHO

[Mars_ax]

I know who I pick as the best of the 2.....


Debatable Marciano's top 4 names he won against...

better at the lower weights... Ezzard Charles who went on to fight another 23 times losing 13 of them
Rex Layne went on to fight 9 more times losing 5 of them
Joe Louis comming out of retirement to pay the tax man... pointless win on a par with Holmes ali and and Tyson Holmes.
39 year old Jersey Joe Walcott

retired undefeated after defending his title whole 6 time

Debatable Ali's top 4 fighters he won against...

Sonny Liston monster for his weight and went on to fight 16 more fights losing only once

Joe Fraizer

George Foreman went on to fight 6 more times losing only once then coming back to fight to fight another 34 times losing 3 times

Floyd Patterson went on to fight 16 more times losing 3 times one of them being to ali again

Ali fought on far to long prob should have retired after the 3rd Fraizer fight IMHO

Good points Saddo.

If you wanna compare the competition Ali and Marciano faced, it's not even a contest, Ali's competition was far superior to Marciano's.

No offense meant to Marciano's fans, but prime Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes,Tyson and Lennox Lewis were all "big" Heavyweights, who would have crushed the much smaller Marciano.

[brocktonblockbust]

and from whom Rocky Marciano had run shitscared from.

[RohanKnight]

and from whom Rocky Marciano had run shitscared from.

sif its not true, how do you explain Marciano training to come out of retirement for Ingemar JOhansson, and then quitting as soon as Liston literally tore the champion apart..

Marciano knew for a fact that he'd get destroyed,and lets not forget Liston was the same age as Marciano, so you cant argue he gave up his comeback because he was past his prime. He was simply more limited than you make out, and now he realised it - why should he risk his record and his ATG status to get shown up by someone obviously better than him?

Then Rocky had the bad grace to say he would have kicked Clay's ass - an odd thing to say for such a gracious man, given that he ran from an obvious beating from Sonny Liston that Clay was happy to take - something was obviously bothering him immensely for him to react like that. A lot of retired champs mouth off, so he wasnt alone in that behaviour.

[brocktonblockbust]

and from whom Rocky Marciano had run shitscared from.

sif its not true, how do you explain Marciano training to come out of retirement for Ingemar JOhansson, and then quitting as soon as Liston literally tore the champion apart..

Marciano knew for a fact that he'd get destroyed,and lets not forget Liston was the same age as Marciano, so you cant argue he gave up his comeback because he was past his prime. He was simply more limited than you make out, and now he realised it - why should he risk his record and his ATG status to get shown up by someone obviously better than him?

Then Rocky had the bad grace to say he would have kicked Clay's ass - an odd thing to say for such a gracious man, given that he ran from an obvious beating from Sonny Liston that Clay was happy to take - something was obviously bothering him immensely for him to react like that. A lot of retired champs mouth off, so he wasnt alone in that behaviour.

you are well wacked.

[Mars_ax]

and from whom Rocky Marciano had run shitscared from.

sif its not true, how do you explain Marciano training to come out of retirement for Ingemar JOhansson, and then quitting as soon as Liston literally tore the champion apart..

Marciano knew for a fact that he'd get destroyed,and lets not forget Liston was the same age as Marciano, so you cant argue he gave up his comeback because he was past his prime. He was simply more limited than you make out, and now he realised it - why should he risk his record and his ATG status to get shown up by someone obviously better than him?

Then Rocky had the bad grace to say he would have kicked Clay's ass - an odd thing to say for such a gracious man, given that he ran from an obvious beating from Sonny Liston that Clay was happy to take - something was obviously bothering him immensely for him to react like that. A lot of retired champs mouth off, so he wasnt alone in that behaviour.

I don't think Marciano was ever afraid to fight anybody, including Sonny Liston, that's insulting. I do believe however that had this fight happened, Liston would have knocked Marciano out, he was too big, and too powerful for the much smaller Rocky.