James Toney is back! Toney/Lebedev live!

[p4pking]

Dunno about that Miles; I think he was definetly that shot, just a physical wreck of the highest order.

Tarver doesn't really belong in the same breath as Toney Roy or Holyfield at this point, I thought he still looked perfectly capable against Green and he did have a much later start to his career. Age is the only thing he shares with those guys and I'd like to see Lebedev take him on, I think Tarver wins that one.

[Gandalf]

Dunno about that Miles; I think he was definetly that shot, just a physical wreck of the highest order.

Tarver doesn't really belong in the same breath as Toney Roy or Holyfield at this point, I thought he still looked perfectly capable against Green and he did have a much later start to his career. Age is the only thing he shares with those guys and I'd like to see Lebedev take him on, I think Tarver wins that one.

Perhaps, but I don't want to see Toney fight anymore. I don't want him to take any more head shots and I want him to quit talking about the 'Bitchko sisters'. I never want to see him stopped.

I'm still flabbergasted how he was wobbling after throwing punches and receiving punches that really didn't seem that hard and would certainly have never phased him in the past and yet had him reeling everywhere.

The timing for me was perhaps the most shocking thing and the telegraphing of punches. He would throw a punch and miss by massive distances. You could see when he was throwing that it could never land and for him to be unable to see that despite all his knowledge and experience. It was surreal. The fight was extremely surreal.

It was a Toney fight like no other and it has to be the end.

[Gandalf]

But did he injure his leg? Apparently in the post fight interview he mumbled about this....is that true? I missed the interview. If the leg was injured though it would explain a lot.

To perform like that is beyond shot, he had to be injured and he showed clear signs of being injured.

[Gandalf]

You don't go from being James Toney to being Andrew Hartley with a chin. It just doesn't happen. I'm very upset by the result and clearly Toney is past his best, but I am going to wait on knowing what the deal is with the leg first. There has to be a reason why Toney was so tragic and relying on the ONE counter move all night.

[Gandalf]

The leg slip was obvious, we all saw it. Toney hurt himself, I commented on it. Now if he couldn't pivot properly then that takes away half of your gameplan. That has to have been a factor in Toney's performance.

I just cannot buy that he was simply THAT shot. This is James Toney! Since when does Toney not land ANY meangingful punches?

It doesn't add up. Sure he can lose, but he can land a few on the way to losing a decision. It just doesn't add up.

[Gandalf]

Now I've just seen the interview and Toney mentioned it, but didn't want to bitch about it. The man hurt his leg and fought with one leg. That is seemingly quite clear. It would also explain everything in the performance too. Toney is not what he was, but he was injured and wouldn't do a Hopkins.

[Gandalf]

I'm seeing it quite differently now and see a reason and logic behind what happened this evening. Toney is old, but it isn't simply because he got old. He fucked himself up early on and battled on through. Since when has Toney ever pushed the quit button? And even in doing that his opponent couldn't stop him.

[p4pking]

Actually it completely does add up, the weight he lost was clearly as much muscle as fat(if he managed to shed any). The fact that he may have been that size or smaller at one point is moot considering he has spent the last 8 or 9 years well above this weight.
He looked absolutely useless from the very opening moments of the fight , and has shown steady decline for many years now. It was very clear he wasn't going to be generating any power at all and even his punch resistance looked to have seriously waned. He could still slip punches on muscle memory and due to Lebedevs being fairly average, thats about it. Just because there has been a slew of guys operating on a high level into their forties lately doesn't take away what it means for most people, especially those who have never taken care of their body in the first place and have serious medical issues as a result of concussions etc.
There was also no real precident of a guy dropping that much weight at his age and not being a complete shell.

[p4pking]

Even if you want to attribute a good part of his performance to the "injury", that in itself was probably a result of what terrible condition he was in. Noone can operate entirely on skill alone, you have to be physically capable if you want to beat anyone remotely decent.

[Gandalf]

Actually it completely does add up, the weight he lost was clearly as much muscle as fat(if he managed to shed any). The fact that he may have been that size or smaller at one point is moot considering he has spent the last 8 or 9 years well above this weight.
He looked absolutely useless from the very opening moments of the fight , and has shown steady decline for many years now. It was very clear he wasn't going to be generating any power at all and even his punch resistance looked to have seriously waned. He could still slip punches on muscle memory and due to Lebedevs being fairly average, thats about it. Just because there has been a slew of guys operating on a high level into their forties lately doesn't take away what it means for most people, especially those who have never taken care of their body in the first place and have serious medical issues as a result of concussions etc.
There was also no real precident of a guy dropping that much weight at his age and not being a complete shell.

Valid points and I agree, but you saw him in those early rounds shaking his knee like a boxer doesn't do. It was like Tyson/Williams. And yet in this instance, Toney worked his way through. My mind is changing completely. If Toney was really injured, then he did alright.

We have no idea what the damage is and Toney is a true warrior unlike Hopkins. He has no quit in him. I was rude in condemning Toney earlier, but it was understandable. I will stall in those judgements though until I know of the true extent of Toney's injury.

I think the injury explains everything though. He was never supposed to be this bad

[generalbulldog]

The leg slip was obvious, we all saw it. Toney hurt himself, I commented on it. Now if he couldn't pivot properly then that takes away half of your gameplan. That has to have been a factor in Toney's performance.

I just cannot buy that he was simply THAT shot. This is James Toney! Since when does Toney not land ANY meangingful punches?

It doesn't add up. Sure he can lose, but he can land a few on the way to losing a decision. It just doesn't add up.

I love Toney as a boxer and a character outside the ring. But he's shot. I didn't even watch the fight knowing that this would likely be the outcome.

I think I might look up an old Toney fight circa early 90s to remember him as the dominant fighter he once was.

[Rantcatrat]

I imagine there will be a anti-Lebedev backlash because he has now punished two American former stars. Lebedev isn't shite. That's ridiculous. He isn't great but he's not shite. Seriously, I consider Marco Huck to be a legitimate fighter and Lebedev gave him a run for his money. Go watch that fight before juding him. No one said Danny Green was shite and Danny Green has done less than Lebedev. My theory is people hate Lebedev because he probably has the ugliest face in boxing.

[Mars_ax]

I imagine there will be a anti-Lebedev backlash because he has now punished two American former stars. Lebedev isn't shite. That's ridiculous. He isn't great but he's not shite. Seriously, I consider Marco Huck to be a legitimate fighter and Lebedev gave him a run for his money. Go watch that fight before juding him. No one said Danny Green was shite and Danny Green has done less than Lebedev. My theory is people hate Lebedev because he probably has the ugliest face in boxing.

I don't "hate" Lebedev, but what's up with fighting washed up, old American fighters? And then after the fights, crying and/or acting like you just beat them in their primes, WTF?

I just don't get it, or why Russian boxing fans would have any interest at all in watching this boring shit.

[Gocougars3]

I imagine there will be a anti-Lebedev backlash because he has now punished two American former stars. Lebedev isn't shite. That's ridiculous. He isn't great but he's not shite. Seriously, I consider Marco Huck to be a legitimate fighter and Lebedev gave him a run for his money. Go watch that fight before juding him. No one said Danny Green was shite and Danny Green has done less than Lebedev. My theory is people hate Lebedev because he probably has the ugliest face in boxing.

I don't "hate" Lebedev, but what's up with fighting washed up, old American fighters? And then after the fights, crying and/or acting like you just beat them in their primes, WTF?

I just don't get it, or why Russian boxing fans would have any interest at all in watching this boring shit.

Lebedev is a decent fighter. Unfortunately guys line up to fight names like Toney and RJJ past their primes, particularly in a no name-no glamour division like cruisers. There are not a lot of dream match ups in that division at present. The last thing I want to do is defend fights like this one though, that's for sure.

[Rantcatrat]

I imagine there will be a anti-Lebedev backlash because he has now punished two American former stars. Lebedev isn't shite. That's ridiculous. He isn't great but he's not shite. Seriously, I consider Marco Huck to be a legitimate fighter and Lebedev gave him a run for his money. Go watch that fight before juding him. No one said Danny Green was shite and Danny Green has done less than Lebedev. My theory is people hate Lebedev because he probably has the ugliest face in boxing.

I don't "hate" Lebedev, but what's up with fighting washed up, old American fighters? And then after the fights, crying and/or acting like you just beat them in their primes, WTF?

I just don't get it, or why Russian boxing fans would have any interest at all in watching this boring shit.

Lebedev is a decent fighter. Unfortunately guys line up to fight names like Toney and RJJ past their primes, particularly in a no name-no glamour division like cruisers. There are not a lot of dream match ups in that division at present. The last thing I want to do is defend fights like this one though, that's for sure.

There are a few good match-ups though that just haven't been made yet.

Huck v. Lebedev rematch
Huck v. Cunningham rematch
Winner of Wlod v. Green versus any of the above.
Tarver versus any of the above.