I think the judges in the Pacquiao Marquez fight proved judges are actuallyconsistent

[miron_lang]

I agree.


and they have always judged that way.


Pretty even round? give it to the one pressing the action.

[generalbulldog]

I hardly ever agree with the hobbit but I have to concede here. Another thing I have to add is that judges do not have the whole different camera angles that the fans watching on tv enjoy. And if I'm not mistaken they can't use instant replays to help them score a round.

[TheBranMan]

I can't comprehend how someone could defend that scoring. Highlighting that fights are all pinned on aggression by giving us a few examples where the aggressive fighter is out-boxed and still wins doesn't prove anything other than the fact that this kind of thing happens all too much.
BTW, none of those fights (other than maybe toney/peter - haven't seen that in a while) had the scoring differential of Pac/Marquez III. I'm sorry but Pac didn't win this one. Even a few of the 'Pactards' have come out and admitted it. It was a pretty good fight and def wasn't the worst robbery I've ever seen but JMM deserves his credit (finally), this shouldn't happen at this level of the sport. The fans shouldn't condone this kind of thing (even Pac fans) - next time it could be your favorite fighter who gets robbed of a well-deserved win.

[miron_lang]

I can't comprehend how someone could defend that scoring. Highlighting that fights are all pinned on aggression by giving us a few examples where the aggressive fighter is out-boxed and still wins doesn't prove anything other than the fact that this kind of thing happens all too much.
BTW, none of those fights (other than maybe toney/peter - haven't seen that in a while) had the scoring differential of Pac/Marquez III. I'm sorry but Pac didn't win this one. Even a few of the 'Pactards' have come out and admitted it. It was a pretty good fight and def wasn't the worst robbery I've ever seen but JMM deserves his credit (finally), this shouldn't happen at this level of the sport. The fans shouldn't condone this kind of thing (even Pac fans) - next time it could be your favorite fighter who gets robbed of a well-deserved win.

How did you score it?

[fairyrak]

i respect how they like to score them but i wish that an even round should be even, or at least awarded to the 38 years old man over the 33, because of that strange advantage and many boxers nowadays duck others if they are in their prime and later fans unfairly take it too seriously when the young man beats the legend

[miron_lang]

i respect how they like to score them but i wish that an even round should be even, or at least awarded to the 38 years old man over the 33, because of that strange advantage and many boxers nowadays duck others if they are in their prime and later fans unfairly take it too seriously when the young man beats the legend

A very good post.

[TheBranMan]

I can't comprehend how someone could defend that scoring. Highlighting that fights are all pinned on aggression by giving us a few examples where the aggressive fighter is out-boxed and still wins doesn't prove anything other than the fact that this kind of thing happens all too much.
BTW, none of those fights (other than maybe toney/peter - haven't seen that in a while) had the scoring differential of Pac/Marquez III. I'm sorry but Pac didn't win this one. Even a few of the 'Pactards' have come out and admitted it. It was a pretty good fight and def wasn't the worst robbery I've ever seen but JMM deserves his credit (finally), this shouldn't happen at this level of the sport. The fans shouldn't condone this kind of thing (even Pac fans) - next time it could be your favorite fighter who gets robbed of a well-deserved win.

How did you score it?

I only gave Pac the 6th and the 10th (even that is debatable). On a generous day I could give Pac the first as well (I had it a draw), but to mess up the scorecard like Lederman AND ALL 3 OF THE JUDGES did... it shows they have another agenda - accidents/miricles like that don't happen when there is this much money flowing through the golden child (Pac)

[Hulk]

I agree.


and they have always judged that way.


Pretty even round? give it to the one pressing the action.

I agree.

Thats why Marvin Hagler famously won his super fight with Sugar Ray Leonard.

Oh wait a minute...

Judges do score consistently, they consistently go with the big money fighter, and are consistently corrupt throughout different eras and decades.

THAT is the only consistency.

[miron_lang]

I agree.


and they have always judged that way.


Pretty even round? give it to the one pressing the action.

I agree.

Thats why Marvin Hagler famously won his super fight with Sugar Ray Leonard.

Oh wait a minute...

Judges do score consistently, they consistently go with the big money fighter, and are consistently corrupt throughout different eras and decades.

THAT is the only consistency.

yeah. That helps too

[Gandalf]

This was an easy fight to score. Pac was coming forward, but it was hardly what Calzaghe was doing with Hopkins where it was all hustle and work. Pac was coming forward, but not throwing that much. In fact he appeared to be trying to box Marquez which just made him look lazy. The clean, crisp punches were all from Marquez and you saw it in most of the rounds.

It was a robbery. I don't like threads like this which try to put a spin on it. Most people thought Calzaghe beat Hopkins, most people thought Marquez beat Pac. Different kinds of fights completely, but popular opinion wins out. This was easier to score IMO as it wasn't dirty, had little clinching and had no KD's.

[generalbulldog]

BTW, I have this to add. I remember years back when Roy Jones was in his prime and fighting some opponent in the mid '90s the HBO panel was asking Gil Clancy on how to score a round and I remember Clancy saying that hypothetically if lets say in a round and 2 boxers don't throw a punch but one comes forward and is aggressive and the other guy is back pedaling, then the forward coming aggressive fighter wins that round, usually. Just food for thought.

So in close rounds the aggressive and more busier fighter will take it as Bilbo have said. BTW I had it 115-113 for JMM but I did not see a dominating and dismantling performance by JMM that people are crying robbery are saying.

[Gandalf]

It wasn't a domination, no. Calzaghe/Lacy is domination. However, I do believe it was a convincing and clear Marquez victory. It is difficult to argue against how well he boxed and landed with all too frequent precision.

[TheBranMan]

Lets see if I can phrase this correctly and succinctly:
It was a robbery. Wasn't a domination. Was a clear win. Surprised that they're pushing the envelope this far at this level of the "sport".

Storyline: a legendary Mexican fighter who arguably won all three fights and a corrupt system that won't give any credit. The first was excusable, the second was a slap in the face, the third was simply disgusting.

[mnmc10]

Storyline: a legendary Mexican fighter who arguably won all three fights and a corrupt system that won't give any credit. The first was excusable, the second was a slap in the face, the third was simply disgusting.

for me the first should be a pac win the second and 3rd for jmm. i feel that the 2nd fight was given to pac to correct the mistake from the first. so a draw-pac1-jmm1 i can accept, 3-0 jmm for pac haters then 3-0 pac is for nuthuggers.

[Andre]

BTW, I have this to add. I remember years back when Roy Jones was in his prime and fighting some opponent in the mid '90s the HBO panel was asking Gil Clancy on how to score a round and I remember Clancy saying that hypothetically if lets say in a round and 2 boxers don't throw a punch but one comes forward and is aggressive and the other guy is back pedaling, then the forward coming aggressive fighter wins that round, usually. Just food for thought.

So in close rounds the aggressive and more busier fighter will take it as Bilbo have said. BTW I had it 115-113 for JMM but I did not see a dominating and dismantling performance by JMM that people are crying robbery are saying.

Great post. I dont think coming forward should ever beat being countered while you do though.

I didnt see a total dismantling either, but I saw Juan land the better harder shots in the closer rounds and I saw Manny miss and come off gloves and shoot past an ear and land off elbows and hit mid air more than he landed, all that was from Juans skill not Mannys lack of trying.