Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable

[erics44]

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

[Gandalf]

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

[LobowolfXXX]

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

[LobowolfXXX]

You can actually see the effectiveness of Ward in some of the arguments his detractors posit against him. First, he makes a fighter look really bad; then, the fact that the fighter looked bad is taken as evidence that Ward isn't that good. Don't kid yourself; the Kessler that Calzaghe beat isn't significantly different than the Kessler that Ward beat two years later.

[AdamGB]

You can actually see the effectiveness of Ward in some of the arguments his detractors posit against him. First, he makes a fighter look really bad; then, the fact that the fighter looked bad is taken as evidence that Ward isn't that good. Don't kid yourself; the Kessler that Calzaghe beat isn't significantly different than the Kessler that Ward beat two years later.

Yeah! Kessler is Kessler! Come on guys!... Use your head






















Cos unlike Calzaghe, Ward sure as fuck used his!

[Gandalf]

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

I think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.

I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.

[LobowolfXXX]

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

I think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.

I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.

Well, which is it? I thought the Calzaghe win over Kessler was more impressive because that was the undefeated, confident Kessler; but now Kessler lost to Ward because he was too confident? Perhaps Kessler was too confident for the Calzaghe fight, and would have beaten him in a rematch (yeah, that's a joke, but seriously, neither Kessler nor Froch belongs on the Ward/Calzaghe discussion. They're both markedly worse than Calzaghe and Ward. Let's be serious).

Calzaghe beat Kessler clearly and comfortably, but he didn't "destroy" him, and he wouldn't have destroyed Ward, who is faster, more versatile, and just all-around better than Kessler. Of course, I think that it's equally silly to think that a prime Ward (which we may not have seen yet) would "destroy" a prime Calzaghe. Personally, I think it'd be a hell of a fight, and if they fought three times, I think 2-1 one way or the other is more likely than 3-0.

[erics44]

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

kessler has gone way down hill

[LobowolfXXX]

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

kessler has gone way down hill

Really? Based on what? Because other than Ward, he's beaten everyone put in front of him since Calzaghe (including Froch), most by knockout. Or maybe he just looks like he's gone way downhill because Ward made him look that bad.

[Dropanuke]

Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.

[Gandalf]

Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.

I think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.

I think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.

I'm pretty sure Froch would of been one hell of a 15 round fighter. The guy just always seems to be in full swing by the 12 round!

[Dropanuke]

Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.

I think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.

Froch output was pretty decent throughout his career so where is the problem?? Is it his slow starting that lets him down?? I was hoping he would start out like against pascal

[Gandalf]

Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.

I think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.

Froch output was pretty decent throughout his career so where is the problem?? Is it his slow starting that lets him down?? I was hoping he would start out like against pascal

It's hard to explain, but for some reason Froch doesn't do enough and loses too many rounds. The Johnson fight was harder than it really should have been, against Taylor he was well down. Froch is a determined fighter and that has helped him overcome tough opposition, but that toughness alone isn't enough against Ward. Froch makes silly mistakes and Ward knows how to make him pay. Froch is there to be hit and obliges his opponent by allowing them to get off more punches. The only time he has been truly dominant was against Abraham who in turn simply refused to throw any punches.

I was hoping he would be able to put some hurt on Ward and do it early, but it was the same old thing. He did come on late, but it was far too late. Froch looked confused and it was obvious how his own flaws were finally being made to come up and bite him. He couldn't do anything, but grit his teeth and hope Ward would slow and he did. Froch is fun against people who want to fight, but slicksters who can box have only made him look slow and cumbersome. We saw this most obviously with Taylor and again here.

[Gandalf]

Dirrell is a slickster, but I thought Froch did outwork him so I don't include him so much. Though it was a stylistic mess. Dirrell wouldn't throw punches either. That was a horrible fight. Some here seem to think Dirrell won, but I disagree.