How Ali could take Foremans shots but not Frazıers so well?

[brocktonblockbust]

I keep watchıng the rumble and I see how Ali naıled Foreman wıth rıght hand leads early on. etc. I see how thıs pıssed off George and he went wıld tryıng to kıll Ali. Many more than several flush shots apparently landed and I sımply could see no reactıon at all from Ali. I am really wonderıng how thıs ıs possıble. We saw Ali staggered by Cooper, Frazıer, adn several others---so how could ıt be Foreman the most destructıve puncher of all tıme could not stagger Ali wıth several clean shots to the head, chın, ear, etc? Not to mentıon dozens of wıcked body shots ıncludıng kıdney shots whıch would have crıppled a horse.....Yes Ali had perhaps the greatest chın ever, but why no sıgn at all of beıng even a bıt buzzed by those ıncredıble shots? George landed alot more power punches than I remembered. The fırst two rounds of that fıght are amazıngly nerve-wrackıng.

[p4pking]

I think it's really as simple as Ali having seen his shots coming, wheras not Fraziers. Foreman really loaded up on everything in those days, didn't use his jab and half of everything powerful came from waist level, which played right into his hands against a bob and weave infighter like Frazier. Ali's tactics and mindgames combined with the crowd being so in favour of him only caused George to become more predictable. I think what's more shocking is how Foreman got rid of Frazier so easily, although it does make sense when you break down the styles.

[ross]

Same as Holmes could take Shavers, McCalls, Holyfields, Bonecrushers and Cooneys but not Tysons

Speed.

[brocktonblockbust]

yeah good poınts. Ali saw the punches comıng even before George thought to throw them practıcally. Probably took half the power out of the shots.

[FinitoElDinamita]

Because Foreman's punches were all telegraphed and predictable which allowed Ali to brace for the punch....

On the other hand, as the smaller man, Frazier was able to get inside on Ali while landing quick punches that surprised him more... Punches that u dont see coming are the ones that hurt you and Frazier was able to land plenty of them..

IT's all about styles and handspeed.. NO doubt big George had the heavier hands but as I stated in another thread, punching power comes in many forms..

Frazier's style was simply more effective against Ali...

[elcolibri]

IIRC For that fight Ali specifically trained to take a major beating and not be affected by it. (Maybe that training was a change for him at that time?)

[Spicoli]

Style and delivery system

[Manos de Piedra]

Simply because he could see them coming and was braced to take the shot, whereas against Frazier he didn't see 'em coming. The one you don't see coming does the most damage.

[Master]

He took a lot of them on the arms and the ones landed on the chin were met with a great chin.

[Mars_ax]

Seems like Ali took most of George's big shots on his gloves, arms/elbows, some did get through but Ali took them well. It also helped that Ali had the heart of a fucking Lion.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I think it's really as simple as Ali having seen his shots coming, wheras not Fraziers. Foreman really loaded up on everything in those days, didn't use his jab and half of everything powerful came from waist level, which played right into his hands against a bob and weave infighter like Frazier. Ali's tactics and mindgames combined with the crowd being so in favour of him only caused George to become more predictable. I think what's more shocking is how Foreman got rid of Frazier so easily, although it does make sense when you break down the styles.

Good assessment, Frazier had a wonderful left hook, you're right Ali didn't see them coming. Frazier would throw them from a different angle and put all his body behind it. Foreman was more predictable, remember Ali's taunts before the fight "Here comes George with a left, here comes George with a right" Foreman telegraphed what he was going to do before it happened giving Ali time to brace for the punch or slip the punch altogether. With Frazier you just got popped and you didn't see it. The Ali strategy of the right hand lead against Foreman was a master stroke, it was devised by a man who was a brilliant ring tactician, someone who did his homework. Ali was not always joking about in the lead up to his fights. It is obvious that behind closed doors he was very serious about his craft, he was the only one who saw flaws in big George and proceeded to put that into practice. I doubt if there was any other Heavyweight in history who could've beaten Foreman in 1974. Sports writers were in fear of Ali's life at the time, yet with a brilliant ring strategy Ali dismantled George round by round. When it comes to left hooks, Smokin' Joe had one of the best ever.

[TitoFan]

Also Joe's beautiful left hook normally came out of the crouch position. Joe would launch himself up and into Ali's range. Ali preferred the style of defense where he leaned back away from the punches... and many of those left hooks went whistling by... but many hit the target. Joe being the shorter man... that helped also.

[Mars_ax]

Ali used the oldest trick in boxing, let your opponent punch himself out, and then when he's exhausted, you own him.

[Gandalf]

Classic fight, I always enjoy returning to this one.

Speed and timing were the difference. As has been mentioned Foreman really loaded up and you could see it coming, Frazier was just quicker and able to surprise Ali more.

[boyla]

Yes Ali had perhaps the greatest chın ever.

Says who?

I think a lot of his staying power was to do with having the right mental attitude.

Lets not forget Ali took a lot of punches to the back of the head in his career, which does not hurt but can do damage to your health in the long run. This was to with his slight slip where he would turn his body slightly and the shot would hit the back of his skull.

Have not seen these epic fights recently but if as you say he wound up Foreman, but he played defensively and possum for long periods at he start of the foreman fight.

Easier to take a powerful shot when you know it is coming, it is the shots you do not expect or see which will knock your ass down.

Did foreman telegraph his blows in the Ali fight, bc he was so pissed off at Ali.
Maybe slightly.

Physically there is nothing you can train for to take a beating, but if you have the frame of mind and are mentally strong you can achieve any thing.

Angelo Dundee wanted to throw in the towel for the Fraizer fight III.

Both times and I am sure many more ali fought with heart, and not many people can do that he gave 110% effort and that extra 10% can win these close fights.