Non-British perspective: Froch easier to like than was Calzaghe

[TitoFan]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Its not Calzaghes fault that 168 was anorexic at his peak anymore then it was the fault of Hopkins for a mediocre 160 division

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO.

You said "I beg to differ" about a comparison made between Calzaghe at 168 and Hopkins at 160. What does Hopkins post 160 career have to do with it?

It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with. Fact.

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

[Fenster]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

[BIG H]

Hopkins reign at MW stunk until Tito. Best wins Vanderpool and Johnson. It's a shocking set of defenses over a 7 year period. After Tito, he fought nobodies again at MW, until DLH, who was a former Lighweight. You can't give Hopkins credit for opponents he lost to in this argument (also not opponents that weren't at MW) The best wins of B-Hops career (imo) are Tito and Pavlik, followed by Tarver and Pascal. He lost to RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe and therefore those fights are not valid in the argument about his resume.

Similarly JCs opponents stank up to Lacy. Brewer, Reid, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank are probably more credible than B-Hop's MW opponents.

I am saying this completely objectively! Neither had realy good wins until later in their careers. It's not their fault that the oppositions was so mediocre. Prime for Prime, p4p, taking everytghing into consideration, they are hard to split. Each beats everybody on each others records up to their defining fights.

[TitoFan]

Hopkins reign at MW stunk until Tito. Best wins Vanderpool and Johnson. It's a shocking set of defenses over a 7 year period. After Tito, he fought nobodies again at MW, until DLH, who was a former Lighweight. You can't give Hopkins credit for opponents he lost to in this argument (also not opponents that weren't at MW) The best wins of B-Hops career (imo) are Tito and Pavlik, followed by Tarver and Pascal. He lost to RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe and therefore those fights are not valid in the argument about his resume.

Similarly JCs opponents stank up to Lacy. Brewer, Reid, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank are probably more credible than B-Hop's MW opponents.

I am saying this completely objectively! Neither had realy good wins until later in their careers. It's not their fault that the oppositions was so mediocre. Prime for Prime, p4p, taking everytghing into consideration, they are hard to split. Each beats everybody on each others records up to their defining fights.

Keith Holmes was WBC middleweight champ, and Glen Johnson would go on to become IBF light heavyweight champ. He also beat William Joppy, who had been a good middleweight champ in his own right. B-Hop's win over DLH doesn't rate for me... 'cause DLH had no business at 160 to begin with. His brief stay there was a sham.

But I'm not here really to defend B-Hop's quality of opposition throughout the years, 'cause I'm not a B-Hop fan.... and besides, as with Wlad Klitschko and probably with Calzaghe himself... maybe they're not to be faulted as to the lack of classic opposition that make for epic fights. If they're not available, they're not available... and that's that.

Somehow I was drawn into this side argument, when my main point was and still is.... the "un-fan-friendliness" of Calzaghe's style in his later fights. I do have to make a parenthesis, however, and decry the choice of Peter (WTF?) Manfredo as an opponent at that particular stage of Calzaghe's career. I honestly don't think Hopkins had a "Peter Manfredo" at that stage of his own career. But that's another story.

That Calzaghe had brittle hands and had to adapt his style to that fact? That's all well and good. But it makes for lousy professional fights. Like I stated several times before..... I can watch a slugfest, or I can watch a chess match between two master boxers. But even these "chess matches" contain legitimate boxing punches. Punches landed in true form, by professionals in their craft. Slapping is something you see in "Toughman" competitions, when two guys are dragged out of a bar and paid $50 to slap each other to death.

That's all I'm saying.

[TitoFan]

Bando, I like both. Read my post to Big H, I just posted a few seconds ago... it explains the whole thing from my own personal perspective.

[TitoFan]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

Look..... "The Fenster". And I'm going to say this as slowly as I can. No one said anything about Calzaghe ducking anybody in this argument. N-o-b-o-d-y. You were the one who brought it up... and you're using the pathetic argument as a battering ram. Do me a favor and shove it, ok?

Also, quit splitting hairs about whether we're talking about title runs or entire careers. My point is comparing quality of opposition. And that wasn't even my original point. I started this thread because I never liked Calzaghe's slapping style in the fights that I did see. I never claimed I saw early Calzaghe, before he broke his hands. To use your own warped logic, I can only discuss and report on the later fights I did see... and the so-called "flurries" which weren't really flurries at all, because they were slaps, not even landed with the legal part of the glove. And I used this rationale to state that Froch is easier to like than Calzaghe. Frome there, the thread has slightly degenerated. Mainly because you go off on tangents, as is your style, to back up your nonsense.

So back my main point: Froch is way easier to like than was Calzaghe... mainly because of his fighting style, vs. Calzaghe's style. Fact.

[Dia bando]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

Look..... "The Fenster". And I'm going to say this as slowly as I can. No one said anything about Calzaghe ducking anybody in this argument. N-o-b-o-d-y. You were the one who brought it up... and you're using the pathetic argument as a battering ram. Do me a favor and shove it, ok?

Also, quit splitting hairs about whether we're talking about title runs or entire careers. My point is comparing quality of opposition. And that wasn't even my original point. I started this thread because I never liked Calzaghe's slapping style in the fights that I did see. I never claimed I saw early Calzaghe, before he broke his hands. To use your own warped logic, I can only discuss and report on the later fights I did see... and the so-called "flurries" which weren't really flurries at all, because they were slaps, not even landed with the legal part of the glove. And I used this rationale to state that Froch is easier to like than Calzaghe. Frome there, the thread has slightly degenerated. Mainly because you go off on tangents, as is your style, to back up your nonsense.

So back my main point: Froch is way easier to like than was Calzaghe... mainly because of his fighting style, vs. Calzaghe's style. Fact.

Tito do you like Froch's brawling style more than a pure boxing style, I can see your point I like both styles myself. I have watched Calzaghe many years and lot's of other fighters, I no a good fighter from
a bad one it's a mater of taste and I can go with that.

[Fenster]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

Look..... "The Fenster". And I'm going to say this as slowly as I can. No one said anything about Calzaghe ducking anybody in this argument. N-o-b-o-d-y. You were the one who brought it up... and you're using the pathetic argument as a battering ram. Do me a favor and shove it, ok?

Also, quit splitting hairs about whether we're talking about title runs or entire careers. My point is comparing quality of opposition. And that wasn't even my original point. I started this thread because I never liked Calzaghe's slapping style in the fights that I did see. I never claimed I saw early Calzaghe, before he broke his hands. To use your own warped logic, I can only discuss and report on the later fights I did see... and the so-called "flurries" which weren't really flurries at all, because they were slaps, not even landed with the legal part of the glove. And I used this rationale to state that Froch is easier to like than Calzaghe. Frome there, the thread has slightly degenerated. Mainly because you go off on tangents, as is your style, to back up your nonsense.

So back my main point: Froch is way easier to like than was Calzaghe... mainly because of his fighting style, vs. Calzaghe's style. Fact.

No one is splitting hairs and I have certainly not gone off on tangents.

1. "N-o-b-o-d-y said anything about Calzaghe ducking anybody in this argument."

Calzaghe ducked and dodged throughout his career.

2. You didn't understand the point IamInuit made. Fact.

3. You don't like Calzaghe because he "slaps" and fought Manfredo? OK. Why would I give a flying fuck who you like? Have I made a single comment about this? No. I've replied specifically to things relating to form/records. Fact.

The Fenster.

[TitoFan]

Fenster... let IamInuit speak for himself. He never uttered another word after he foolishly tried to counter my "slapping" argument by arguing that Ali was a slapper. I countered with technical explanations proving that Ali was not a slapper... and he countered back with "Oh yes he was." I called him on the weakness of that counter argument, and I haven't heard a peep from him since.

As for the rest of it... frankly I'm tired of arguing with you. You're not worth the trouble. And since you're bent on having the last word, go ahead and say something stupid again. No one would expect anything less.

[IamInuit]

Fenster... let IamInuit speak for himself. He never uttered another word after he foolishly tried to counter my "slapping" argument by arguing that Ali was a slapper. I countered with technical explanations proving that Ali was not a slapper... and he countered back with "Oh yes he was." I called him on the weakness of that counter argument, and I haven't heard a peep from him since.

As for the rest of it... frankly I'm tired of arguing with you. You're not worth the trouble. And since you're bent on having the last word, go ahead and say something stupid again. No one would expect anything less.

WTF are you talking about? Ali slapped more the Calzaghe and I witnessed the mans entire career. What do you mean I never replied? So you think that I am going to be bothered about this forums shitty ubiquitous key board wars where a bunch of hallway monitors decide what is fact and what is fiction? Calzaghe had one of the best ko ratios in boxing history prior to around the time of Omar Shieka. Thats a fucking fact.

I have not uttered another word because nothing was left to be said. The feelings you have about Calzaghe are forum urban legends. I merely attempted to correct that fallacy. So next time bring something adult and objective.

[TitoFan]

Fenster... let IamInuit speak for himself. He never uttered another word after he foolishly tried to counter my "slapping" argument by arguing that Ali was a slapper. I countered with technical explanations proving that Ali was not a slapper... and he countered back with "Oh yes he was." I called him on the weakness of that counter argument, and I haven't heard a peep from him since.

As for the rest of it... frankly I'm tired of arguing with you. You're not worth the trouble. And since you're bent on having the last word, go ahead and say something stupid again. No one would expect anything less.

WTF are you talking about? Ali slapped more the Calzaghe and I witnessed the mans entire career. What do you mean I never replied? So you think that I am going to be bothered about this forums shitty ubiquitous key board wars where a bunch of hallway monitors decide what is fact and what is fiction? Calzaghe had one of the best ko ratios in boxing history prior to around the time of Omar Shieka. Thats a fucking fact.

I have not uttered another word because nothing was left to be said. The feelings you have about Calzaghe are forum urban legends. I merely attempted to correct that fallacy. So next time bring something adult and objective.

Again you counter my explanation as to why Ali didn't slap with "Yes he did". Do you and Fenster attend the same grade school? Back up your claims with facts or technical explanations, or slink back into the shadows.

[Kirkland Laing]

As for the rest of it... frankly I'm tired of arguing with you. You're not worth the trouble.

This is a classic cop out. You're specifically dodging answering the first point that The Fenster made in this post :

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ml#post1075988


You were clearly wrong about this, weren't you?

[TitoFan]

As for the rest of it... frankly I'm tired of arguing with you. You're not worth the trouble.

This is a classic cop out. You're specifically dodging answering the first point that The Fenster made in this post :

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ml#post1075988


You were clearly wrong about this, weren't you?

What? That I said nobody had said anything about Calzaghe ducking and Fenst dragged up a post from Althugz to the contrary? Yeah so what? You want some fries with that medal? What's your fucking point? I didn't say anything about Calzaghe ducking. How about that? Better? You have any other constructive adds to this thread?

[Beanz]

@TitoFan you really have lost the plot if you think @Fenster needs lessons or encouragement when it comes to drinking.

[Althugz]

Bump! This is too much fun..