An explation as to why two big boxing names never met

[IamInuit]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

[TitoFan]

Some highlights from one of my favorite fights of all time. After suffering this humiliating defeat, I truly don't blame the "magic-carpet-flying" wonder for dodging Juan Manuel Marquez. Who on Earth would want another dose of THAT?

[Master]

I think Naz did avoid him and wanted to make more money fighting less dangerous fighters.

[TitoFan]

That Prince Hamed mentally folded like a lawn chair after being humiliated by Barrera is one of the most well-known facts in boxing. He not only suffered his first loss, but was exposed and humiliated. Barrera not only beat him... he (Barrera) looked angry at times. He put a "man-beating" on a child. Proof? Hamed fought only one other time, more than a year later, against the "world-famous" Manuel Calvo, in the relative quiet and safety of the UK.... then slinked off quietly into the sunset to eat doughnuts and get fat. Giving it a second thought, he did well in not pursuing a fight with JMM. He would've been summarily destroyed. Tragic story if there ever was one.

[Beanz]

@TitoFan trolls again with a complete dangling lugworm of an opening post, dressed up inexpertly as open minded enquiry and Lyle jumps in with a lazy and blinkered critique of British Boxing fan's and the supposed problems with the domestic scene here in the UK.

This is after @Althugz has already swung on TitoFans nuts despite being completely rational and a big fan of characters and entertainers like Naz who he was a fan of despite not knowing that he won and defended his international titles for 7 years and 20+ fights before he met Barrera. Apparently @El Kabong figured the problem comes down to Calzaghe, Haye and Chisora all having a bit to much Nas in their style.

Three very different fighting styles, but apparently to much like Naz whose own style was different again. It is the entertainment business and the four just mentioned all provided that in bucket loads. The idea that "It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards." is an anathema to any sense of rational discussion. It just proves that you already have a set idea of what defines British boxing and won't let reality shake that ingrained prejudice.

Calzaghe and Cleverly are not English, and yes it does matter because it shows how narrow your understanding of the British fight game is. @BIG H and @Fenster both nailed it by pointing out your owns posts glaring contradictory nature.

Who cares so much about fights that never happened, that they randomly become the soul topic of a thread and then are used solely to discredit a fighter and call him a coward?

[TitoFan]

Trolling? Well, I never.....

It's nothing but a well presented documentary on Hamed, and his documented reluctancy to face Juan Manuel Marquez. Nothing "trollling" about that. Think about it... the guy loses for the very first time against MAB, and does so in humiliating, denigrating fashion... in front of thousands of dismayed fans. He goes into hiding, fights once more in the relative safety of the UK against a less than stellar opponent... and retires without so much of a hint of coming back. (Well, when he got fat he talked about coming back, in between bites of a doughnut).

Does that sound like someone who then wants to up and face JMM? What for? To get a second helping of "whup-ass"? Frankly, I don't blame the Prince.

[Fenster]

Actually Naz signed a three-fight deal with HBO after the Barrera loss with a rematch being part of the deal.

He definitely hinted at coming back.

He probably wouldn't have given Marquez another chance though. You can't mess everyone around and turndown career paydays then expect a second chance. Lets be honest.

[El Kabong]

To be honest @Greenbeanz I didn't call Calzaghe or Cleverly English, I used the term British....is Wales all of a sudden not in that little category?

The idea I mean to convey is that the more theatrical/drama queen boxers like Naz are not my favorite and in my view England (& Wales apparently) have produced many of these fighters who are all hat and no cattle. Certainly Calzaghe & Naz were World Class, but to me their theatrics take away from their actual skill. Call me old school, but I like a fighter to be confident, but not over the top cocky, I never have liked those kinds of fighters. When it gets to the point of David Haye where the build up to the fight is more hyped up and talked about than the fight, then you're hurting the sport, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. You fellas seem more than willing to shell out money to watch a retired boxer fight a banned boxer for some trinket title, I have to tell you as a boxing fan I'm more interested in Price & Fury and what they can do. They've not run their mouths, they've not made t-shirts, they've just fought and I respect that more than the attention whores.

[Beanz]

To be honest @Greenbeanz I didn't call Calzaghe or Cleverly English, I used the term British....is Wales all of a sudden not in that little category?

The idea I mean to convey is that the more theatrical/drama queen boxers like Naz are not my favorite and in my view England (& Wales apparently) have produced many of these fighters who are all hat and no cattle. Certainly Calzaghe & Naz were World Class, but to me their theatrics take away from their actual skill. Call me old school, but I like a fighter to be confident, but not over the top cocky, I never have liked those kinds of fighters. When it gets to the point of David Haye where the build up to the fight is more hyped up and talked about than the fight, then you're hurting the sport, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. You fellas seem more than willing to shell out money to watch a retired boxer fight a banned boxer for some trinket title, I have to tell you as a boxing fan I'm more interested in Price & Fury and what they can do. They've not run their mouths, they've not made t-shirts, they've just fought and I respect that more than the attention whores.

"I don't mean to disrespect Calzaghe and I'm not denying Naz's talent I just think that when you let your talent do the talking you get more respect. It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England..."

Once again Lyle you are assuming. You are lumping all British fans together and while many enjoy the theatrics of fighters like Nas and Haye, many like you, are similarly unimpressed by their out of ring personas. The idea that any hype can be bad for the sport is ridiculous. Plenty of fight build ups have been more interesting than the actual fights. Britain does not have a patent on over the top cocky fighters, they are in the minority, but quite naturally their big mouths will make them more obvious from afar. Not only are you doing all other British boxers a disservice by suggesting that because a few brash fighters sell their fights in a manner you disapprove of , the whole "English" game needs turning round, like @Althugz you are also revealing your deep ignorance.

Altug I really do not understand your one minute liking characters like Nas and Eubank, who was a prime example of an over the top cocky fighter, and the next minute congratulating people who dismiss their achievements because they do not like their style. You can not separate the style of people like Nas, Eubank, Haye and Calzaghe from their brash and arrogant personalities. They are one and the same thing. You really think you can get in a Boxing ring and put on an act ? Supreme confidence even when misguided is what allows athletes to achieve great things. If you don't think you are great you will not dictate things in the ring. The belief that you are better than everyone else is the starting point once you get to these guy's levels.

For the record I am a fan of Marquez and Nas, Frazier and Ali, Hatton and Calzaghe. Price,Chisora and Haye, Quigg ,Munroe and Frampton. etc etc etc

[Gypsy warrior]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

[IamInuit]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.

[Fenster]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.

The third post in this thread substantiated it.

[IamInuit]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.

The third post in this thread substantiated it.

That vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.

[Gandalf]

All a bit odd.

[Fenster]

The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.

If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.

Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.

This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.

Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make sense

I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.

The third post in this thread substantiated it.

That vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.

HBO were requesting these matches from Naz so they have no need to lie. They make it clear that Barrera, Morales, MARQUEZ and Tapia were all offered MORE money than they'd ever made in their life to fight Naz on that date (it's the Augie Sanchez fight). They specifically target Marquez's baffling decision to turn it down as he spent ages claiming Naz ducked him.

Here's some more proof with quotes from Marquez.

Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

Marquez fought Daniel Jimenez for $5000 a week after this date.