Julio Jr. vs. Andy Lee Saturday night fight/chat thread

[Master]

Ali is the greatest because of the opposition he faced and beat, far superior to Joe Louis.

Tried to let it go but I cant and mean no offense at all.

Personally I have Louis as the ATG at heavyweight. People default to Ali because it’s a moniker that has been carried and because he said he was as part of his schtick. In private even Ali thinks it is Louis and for good reason.

He held the championship for close to 12 years and during that time he made 25 title defenses with 21 of them not reaching the final bell and 17 of those 21 not making the count of ten. He also knocked out 6 former hev champs and all of this in an era with only one belt.

Ali could not even handle Nortons jab. Louis had one of the best and perhaps the fastest jab in history. Consider even the Doug Jones fight. He was a limited and smallish hev for the era and he frustrated Ali with some arguing with validity that he won the fight.

Ali had issues with technical savvy fighters also. Just watch the Jimmy Young fight. A fight I most certainly think he lost. Ali has become this mythical almost deity like figure.

Futch:

If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing .Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands. That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

This is a whole new topic and whilst I love Louis you are being selective with Ali opponents which were very early on and very late in his career. Louis had problem with movers and a peak Ali (which we never got to see) would have out boxed Joe all night long.

[Mars_ax]

Ali is the greatest because of the opposition he faced and beat, far superior to Joe Louis.

Tried to let it go but I cant and mean no offense at all.

Personally I have Louis as the ATG at heavyweight. People default to Ali because it’s a moniker that has been carried and because he said he was as part of his schtick. In private even Ali thinks it is Louis and for good reason.

He held the championship for close to 12 years and during that time he made 25 title defenses with 21 of them not reaching the final bell and 17 of those 21 not making the count of ten. He also knocked out 6 former hev champs and all of this in an era with only one belt.

Ali could not even handle Nortons jab. Louis had one of the best and perhaps the fastest jab in history. Consider even the Doug Jones fight. He was a limited and smallish hev for the era and he frustrated Ali with some arguing with validity that he won the fight.

Ali had issues with technical savvy fighters also. Just watch the Jimmy Young fight. A fight I most certainly think he lost. Ali has become this mythical almost deity like figure.

Futch:

If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing .Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands. That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

This is a whole new topic and whilst I love Louis you are being selective with Ali opponents which were very early on and very late in his career. Louis had problem with movers and a peak Ali (which we never got to see) would have out boxed Joe all night long.

I agree, "prime" Ali would have schooled Louis.

[IamInuit]

Ali is the greatest because of the opposition he faced and beat, far superior to Joe Louis.

Tried to let it go but I cant and mean no offense at all.

Personally I have Louis as the ATG at heavyweight. People default to Ali because it’s a moniker that has been carried and because he said he was as part of his schtick. In private even Ali thinks it is Louis and for good reason.

He held the championship for close to 12 years and during that time he made 25 title defenses with 21 of them not reaching the final bell and 17 of those 21 not making the count of ten. He also knocked out 6 former hev champs and all of this in an era with only one belt.

Ali could not even handle Nortons jab. Louis had one of the best and perhaps the fastest jab in history. Consider even the Doug Jones fight. He was a limited and smallish hev for the era and he frustrated Ali with some arguing with validity that he won the fight.

Ali had issues with technical savvy fighters also. Just watch the Jimmy Young fight. A fight I most certainly think he lost. Ali has become this mythical almost deity like figure.

Futch:

If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing .Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands. That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

This is a whole new topic and whilst I love Louis you are being selective with Ali opponents which were very early on and very late in his career. Louis had problem with movers and a peak Ali (which we never got to see) would have out boxed Joe all night long.

I never brought it up in this thread and did my best to ignore it but it got to me. You can be selective either way. You cant narrow down Ali's peak to that 3 years. That is also somewhat urban legend considering the natural ability of the man. At any rate I disagree completely. Not sure where the Louis had problems with movers comes from? Ezzard and Conn had movement but nothing like how Ali employed it. I think Louis beats him and maybe stops him late. There has never been save Robinson a fighter with better timing then Louis. Probably also one of the best finishers of all time.

Outside of drive through boxing, historians are split on the issue and for good reason.