Joe Calzaghe gets alot of hate.

[Hulk]

Just to be clear:

At no point in Joe Calzaghes career could he have ever had the opportunity to fight James Toney, Roy Jones or Bhop at 168.

No theres an excuse for him not fighting every meaningful opponent if you are a big enough supporter of the man.

Just as there is plenty of reasons why he could have fought Roy Jones Jr. at light heavyweight well before Jones was a shell of his former self.

Its all perspective and who's corner you are in so theres no sense throwing a bunch of names out there of who he could have fought as they will all be shot down with excuses and various reasons as to why it wasn't Calzaghe's fault that he fought Mario Veit a half dozen times

[IamInuit]

Just to be clear:

At no point in Joe Calzaghes career could he have ever had the opportunity to fight James Toney, Roy Jones or Bhop at 168.

No theres an excuse for him not fighting every meaningful opponent if you are a big enough supporter of the man.

Just as there is plenty of reasons why he could have fought Roy Jones Jr. at light heavyweight well before Jones was a shell of his former self.

Its all perspective and who's corner you are in so theres no sense throwing a bunch of names out there of who he could have fought as they will all be shot down with excuses and various reasons as to why it wasn't Calzaghe's fault that he fought Mario Veit a half dozen times

What opponents could he have fought and why does this urban legend continue to have shelf life? There is no one he could have fought that he didn't unless you include Stieglitz lol prior to Kessler.

Funny how Sir Slappy absolutely destroyed the next coming in Lacy, later dismissed as a bum of course and then gave the heir apparent in Kessler a boxing lesson.

[TitoFan]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

[Dia bando]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Tito for a start , a lot of fighter's don't leave the USA to fight some do I no, you may not like his style of fighting fine.Calzaghe would have been a great 15 round fighter as well, his fitness and work rate
second to none.We can look back at most fighter's careers, and pick hole's in them my point is when
fighter's finish in this game. Sometime's you don't appreciate what you had till it's GONE.

[Beanz]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Two fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)

[TitoFan]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Two fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)

Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.

I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?

[Beanz]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Two fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)

Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.

I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?

Doh! here we go

Your pluses

His Record, something you can't dispute anyway.

Then you so begrudgingly acknowledge a measly TWO fights, that you then have to qualify the fact by saying they shouldn't be held against him! as though every other fight he won was against a bum, a negative mark to be remembered when appraising him

He was busy. Talk about damning with faint praise and even then you have to add your
unqualified opinion that "His quality of punches wasn't the best"

and that is your measured opinion of exactly how much credit you are going to afford him?

You are entitled to your opinion, deluded though it is, but you can not pretend that you are the one being rational and anyone disputing your version of events is worshipping Calzaghe or looking to have him anointed. If you were interested in disputing facts you would have responded to @THE PHILOSOPHER , whose forensic breakdown completely destroys any semblance of rationality in your ranting.

Come in here VD
Come in here Fenster
Come in here I am not a TrollHonestly



There have been some boxers whose careers have been exaggerated and only sustained by careful matchmaking that inflates any real ability they may have possessed. Yet I can not seriously in good conscience give even the lamest of those credit for just two fights.
That would not constitute debate,it would simply be hate.

[TitoFan]

I don't get this lack of middle ground with Calzaghe. What. You either have to worship the ground he walks on..... or you're a hater? It doesn't work that way. There's pluses and minuses, as far as I'm concerned.

Pluses

- He did finish 46-0. Not easy to do under any circumstances.
- He did have two very good fights (Lacy, Kessler). Those shouldn't be held against him.
- He was busy (workrate). Quality of punches wasn't the best.... but I'll mention that later (see minuses).


Minuses

- He fought exclusively in the UK. Only for his last two fights did he venture to the U.S. In the global world of boxing, sorry..... that's a minus.

- He followed up Lacy with Peter ("Are you kidding me??") Manfredo two fights later. What the hell was all THAT about? He beats a Jeff Lacy, only to retreat to a Peter Manfredo?

- His win over B-Hop was highly disputed. Hardly a career-defining fight. He then ended up by getting a decision over an over-the-hill RJJ, and called it a career.

- What Calzaghe fans "love" to hear: His pitty-patter punches, delivered in slapping fashion... particularly in his flurries. He did it against Manfredo... he did it against B-Hop... he did it all the time. When shown in slo-mo.... the slap-fests were almost comical. He hurt his hands? Fine. But his fights were definitely not fan-friendly for me.



(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Two fights that you will give him credit for. That is not quite taking the middle ground. Then you again show your double standards by trying to bait anybody who dare be reasonable and can be rational about Calzaghe's career. While we are on the subject of twos try, troll and hater.;-)

Ouch, beanz..... that hurt.

I give Calzaghe credit for some things. I just don't cherish the ground he walks on. And I explain what I don't like about him. How's that being a "hater"?

Doh! here we go

Your pluses

His Record, something you can't dispute anyway.

Then you so begrudgingly acknowledge a measly TWO fights, that you then have to qualify the fact by saying they shouldn't be held against him! as though every other fight he won was against a bum, a negative mark to be remembered when appraising him

He was busy. Talk about damning with faint praise and even then you have to add your
unqualified opinion that "His quality of punches wasn't the best"

and that is your measured opinion of exactly how much credit you are going to afford him?

You are entitled to your opinion, deluded though it is, but you can not pretend that you are the one being rational and anyone disputing your version of events is worshipping Calzaghe or looking to have him anointed. If you were interested in disputing facts you would have responded to @THE PHILOSOPHER , whose forensic breakdown completely destroys any semblance of rationality in your ranting.

Come in here VD
Come in here Fenster
Come in here I am not a TrollHonestly



There have been some boxers whose careers have been exaggerated and only sustained by careful matchmaking that inflates any real ability they may have possessed. Yet I can not seriously in good conscience give even the lamest of those credit for just two fights.
That would not constitute debate,it would simply be hate.

Yeah, go ahead.... call VD. Now there's a Calzaghe lover.



Like I said... there's no middle ground with Calzaghe. You either bow at his golden statue, or you're a hater. Ok... I'll choose the latter. You want to think of him as the greatest thing in civilization since the invention of the toilet? Go ahead. I personally don't subscribe to the theory that just because you retire undefeated..... that alone qualifies you for mega-stardom. All you have to do is look at the career of JCC Jr., to see what I mean. Hell... I got someone on another thread that is poking holes in Ricardo "Finito" Lopez's career (another undefeated fighter, BTW), based on quality of opponents.

Also, I'm far from the being the only one who fails to bow to the golden statue. There's even some of your own countrymen that are not convinced either. But you don't attack any of them. No. Following in the steps of the other dope... you just take exception to MY remarks.

And do you carry on your argument by yourself? No. Like the little bullied kid..... you go get your little friends so they can come and agree with you. What's next? Threatening to hold your breath till you turn blue? Give me a fucking break.

But I know what's troubling you. You don't get too many world-class champions where you come from. So when you have a Joe Calzaghe, you hold on for dear life...... and woe to those who dare defile the image of the "great one". I can sort of understand, although I don't have that same problem. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you.

[Beanz]

When have I ever called him the greatest, called in anyone to support me or resorted to cheap national stereotyping? Ha! It is perfectly possible to take the middle ground on Calzaghe, which is what I and many other boxing fans do, but you just interpret that as worship. You are very condescending and carry your own prejudice around quite blatantly whilst ridiculing the same thing when you perceive it in others. Do not assume anything about me or project your prejudice as an inverted caricature onto me or others who simply do not share your now admitted hate for a very good boxer.

Whereas you often resort to childish insults and seem to equate not wishing to waste time demeaning opponents and dismissing someones career as fanboydom, it really isn't. How many years have you wasted banging this particular drum?

[imp]

The fact that this dicussion has spread over so many pages explains why there is so many varied views on joes career.
Joe was one of the greats and deserves to be up there..but he wouldnt beat a prime roy jones.lol

[Moneyteamkeys]

So y'all believe if he fought them Back in 94 back when James tony was great he would have ran thru all of em?

[Luckystu72]

Prime Joe beats almost anyone at super middle. Maybe not a prime RJJ, but then again who could beat a prime RJJ? If Roy had retired after beating Ruiz (even though he fought at about 193 lbs for a HW fight) then he would be near the top of the all time p4p list.

[Fenster]

(Cue to Fuckster. Come running in here and express your outrage.)

Outrage? Fuckster is the calmest man in town and has never took umbrage with someones opinion. He just exposes factual errors and glaring weakness in certain arguments. Nothing more, nothing less.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

RAY LEONARD ON JC:

“When Joe Calzaghe beat Jeff Lacy he pretty much shocked the boxing establishment, even yours truly. I didn’t think Joe could beat him.”

"Joe has got great punching power and has all the attributes you need," said Leonard.

"He would have held his own against all the greats I fought, like Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns. And he would hold his own with the others like Bernard Hopkins.

"He has the talent and heart and will be the undisputed champion."

MANNY STEWARD ON JC:

"calzaghe may have to be considered as one of the greats"

NAZ RICHARDSON ON JC:

“It’s hard for us over here to respect Calzaghe’s style because it’s so far different from what we allow our athletes to do here. We won’t allow our athletes to slap with punches. I tell people a lot of times, I applaud Calzaghe’s father because had you brought Joe Calzaghe over here to some of the greatest trainers that live over here, they probably wouldn’t have found the same success with him. I’m talking about some of the all time great trainers. Some of our guys like even the current guys that are out there now, like John David Jackson, Freddie Roach, and people of that nature, Emanuel Steward—they won’t let their guys out of the gym without turning those punches over. So we just wouldn’t accept that style here so it would never have been able to grow and flourish into what he became. We would have probably snuffed that fighter out a long time ago, but his dad being new to boxing he let it slide and it turned out to work. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.”

JONES JR ON JC:

"Calzaghe's one of the best fighters ever, one of the greatest of all time,"
"He has a 100% record of 46-0, Marciano was 49-0. He's a true athlete I respect - we've nothing bad to say to each other, we'll give it all in the ring."

FRANK WARREN ON JC:

“Joe Calzaghe at his prime and all of those guys at their prime – including Steve Collins and Roy Jones – he would have beaten them.”

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

SAKIO BIKA

When asked who the best fighter he fought is:

"calzaghe"

LENNOX ON JC:

"Joe has beaten everyone there is to beat and has nothing else to prove so I think he should retire."

DAVID HAYE ON JC:

"Very rarely do you get a guy with his kind of record retire on top form. Lennox Lewis showed you can walk away from the game and stay away from it. Roy Jones should have retired after he beat John Ruiz but he tainted his legacy by carrying on"

NIGEL BENN ON JC:

Asked whether Joe Calzaghe would have beaten Benn, Eubank, Collins and other greats from the era, Nigel Benn said:

“He might have beaten us all, who knows, we’ll never know.”

MARVIN HAGLER ON JC:

"I knew the first time I saw Calzaghe that he really had something, he went in there completely unfazed against (Chris) Eubank which nobody else had done. Eubank was the guy who usually seemed to have control of everything around him but the way Calzaghe went in there and manhandled him like that...

"I was watching it in Italy, it was the same night England beat Italy to qualify for the soccer World Cup.

"Calzaghe showed and proved power, speed, strength, workrate, stamina, chin, heart and every tangible and intangible that night and that's why I'm not suprised that he's not lost since.

"Sometimes it's like watching a welterweight or junior-middleweight in a super-middleweight's body because he's so nimble and sharp handed. I would never bet against him."

EUBANK ON JC:

"One of the greatest world champions in history and never had a hard fight. He got out with his face intact and plenty of money, one in a million."