HW prospects..

[El Kabong]

THE PHILOSOPHER, that is an exceptional post, well done!


OK, let's take some arguments that people have against the Klitschko's and make sure we're being fair in our judgments:

They haven't been in an epic battle: Well #1 nobody in the current division is on their level for one. Holyfield had Bowe, Ali had Frazier, who do the Klitschko's have? Vitali vs Lennox was an epic battle IMO, I've never seen 2 big guys swing for the fences like that before so give some credit there. #2 There are any number of heavyweights that never had "epic battles", Mike Tyson for example...was he ever in a "battle"? No, he either kicked ass or got his ass kicked. Lennox Lewis? vs Vitali maybe, but not vs anyone else. Larry Holmes?

The division is weak: Heavyweight divisions throughout the ages have been plagued by inconsistent fighters, weight/shape issues, injuries, legal troubles, promoter troubles, etc. It has been the case from the dawn of the sport. Fighters have streaks of good & bad luck, look how poor Foreman was when he retired and how he came back to dominate after getting his head together...these things happen. Remember Ike Ibeabuchi? Think about what could have been, there are plenty of guys like that. David Tua's career was halted by legal issues. Wlad vs Lennox Lewis never happened because Wlad hit an inconsistent streak....shit happens and it happens in every division not just the heavyweights but the reason the heavyweights are so affected is because they don't have multiple divisions that are close in weight where fighters can just say "I'm going to be a heavyweight". Also the idea that you can pick and choose guys out of whichever era and say "Wlad would never beat X", "Vitali would never beat Y" is silly because usually the person saying it has a skewed opinion to begin with & it's a hypothetical situation so we'll never know.

The Klitschko's fight safety first/they are boring: Do Roy Jones Jr. & Floyd Mayweather Jr. attempt to fight like Vinnie Pazienza or Arturo Gatti? Why not? Perhaps it is because their skill provides them with the ability to fight in a different manner where they can be dominant without risking as much. They've never been in "epic battles" either....Why didn't Willie Pep fight like Carmen Basilio? Guys fight differently, they fight to their own individual advantages and the Klitschko brothers are no different. Lennox Lewis caught the same shit from the fans when he was champion, but now he is remembered in a better light because people to an objective look at him when he retired, hopefully when the Klitschko's retire people will take a long hard look and see that they were great champions.

The Klitschko's are the best of this era (say what you will about it) and they have been just as dominant as any other champion has before them. They have unified the belts, they win & win by KO (for the most part) and they defend their titles often.

[TitoFan]

You chose to ignore post # 31, Lyle... and that's fine. You see... that's where posters here lose a little credibility. When have I dissed Wlad and his skills? I did that in his glass jaw years... but lately, no. All I do is talk him up. But I go into some constructive criticism about the division itself....... AND...... come up with some suggestions as to what Wlad can do to improve his image in the U.S...... and you become all defensive and shut yourself off. Only those who share your exact views point by point have valid arguments. In that way, you're no better than those we all criticize. I get slammed for being a Cotto "fanboy". Yet I criticize him for things even the haters don't think about criticizing him for. What I DO take exception to are the haters that criticize everything the guy does. That, Lyle, is what denotes real "hate". When you're incapable of saying something positive about a fighter you don't like. Anyone who's been on the forum over 2 minutes knows you're the biggest Wlad fan here. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you dismiss everything that is said, except praise that mirrors your own, it eats away at your credibility. I know you'll dismiss this comment with the arrogance you sometimes display. That's fine.

I'm not gonna repeat what I posted in post # 31. I think it's there for you to read, if you choose. It has nothing but praise for Wlad, but it does mention some ways for Wlad to improve his image even more. It's OK to feel that the U.S. market is not the "cure-all, end-all" for boxing. To think that would be foolish. But to go the other way and ignore the importance of the U.S. market is even more foolish. Simply put: a fighter who is cherished in Europe but ignored in the U.S. can improve his image. A fighter that unknown outside the U.S. can also improve his image. If you can capture both markets, the way Ali used to..... then you're talking.

What opponents do when they enter the ring against Wlad is totally outside his control. They want to go in there like whimpering little puppies waiting for the axe to fall? Fine. Why not cut a swath through the division until there's no one left? Someone's bound to give Wlad a fight sooner or later.

[El Kabong]

Wlad knows the US is a key market which is why he wants to fight in the US again. Once he does (likely vs Mitchell or Arreola) he will want to win over fans. Wlad is not satisfied having fought Sultan Ibragimov in New York be a lasting image of who he is, what he has accomplished. It took Lennox Lewis time to become accepted by the fans in the United States, Wlad will get there, he knows he has to.

[TitoFan]

Wlad knows the US is a key market which is why he wants to fight in the US again. Once he does (likely vs Mitchell or Arreola) he will want to win over fans. Wlad is not satisfied having fought Sultan Ibragimov in New York be a lasting image of who he is, what he has accomplished. It took Lennox Lewis time to become accepted by the fans in the United States, Wlad will get there, he knows he has to.

For the sake of heavyweight boxing's image in the United States, and maybe the immediate future of the state of the division in the States....... I hope you're right.

[El Kabong]

For the sake of heavyweight boxing's image in the United States, and maybe the immediate future of the state of the division in the States....... I hope you're right.

Well there are always fights that COULD cure that....Arreola-Stiverne for one, but I think that's not going to happen now. I do believe Arreola will put in a solid effort vs Wladimir if/when that fight happens. Seth Mitchell also seems to me like a guy who will put forth some effort and try to win the belts rather than just sit back and take an ass whupping.

The division is more than just the Klitschko's, and by alienating the entire division HBO has really shot itself in the foot. If you're not going to show Klitschko fights due to where they happen & what time they happen, fine, but if the next Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson is currently fighting in the US and is not getting covered....well that's just fucking stupid.

There are 2 ways a division can go in boxing....you can have complete and utter dominance or you can have constant turnover and rivalries. people can get bored of both.

[TitoFan]

For the sake of heavyweight boxing's image in the United States, and maybe the immediate future of the state of the division in the States....... I hope you're right.

Well there are always fights that COULD cure that....Arreola-Stiverne for one, but I think that's not going to happen now. I do believe Arreola will put in a solid effort vs Wladimir if/when that fight happens. Seth Mitchell also seems to me like a guy who will put forth some effort and try to win the belts rather than just sit back and take an ass whupping.

The division is more than just the Klitschko's, and by alienating the entire division HBO has really shot itself in the foot. If you're not going to show Klitschko fights due to where they happen & what time they happen, fine, but if the next Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson is currently fighting in the US and is not getting covered....well that's just fucking stupid.

There are 2 ways a division can go in boxing....you can have complete and utter dominance or you can have constant turnover and rivalries. people can get bored of both.

Funny thing about today's crop of HW's is: they can look great fighting each other..... and then turn around and look like deer caught in headlights against Wlad. This frustrates the living shit out of me. But yeah.... HBO/Showtime could try and feature some of these other heavyweights against each other, and maybe some good, competitive fights would pop out. Viewers would eventually come around. (It would help if they're not fat-asses like James Toney or Solis).

Still, the division will really benefit when someone finally steps up to the plate and takes a few good swings at Wlad, instead of performing "David Haye impressions."

[TitoFan]

No denying Wladimir Klitschko is already heavyweight royalty - ESPN



Here you go, Lyle. I know you'll like this article by Dan Rafael. He and I agree on one thing.... Wlad could be busier. Let's hope he picks up the pace and, in doing so, finds someone who will push him and make for an entertaining and competitive fight. Tony "Where's the Nearest Exit" Thompson certainly didn't fit that description.