So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?

[beenKOed]

Come on Fenster, couldn't you be wrong just this once, please?!

[TitoFan]

He'd rather cut his left nut off with a rusty butter knife, and feed it to his goldfish.

[Spicoli]

There is a huge Y that seperates hope from hype. Hype comes first. There is alot of talent out there and yes personality sells as much as ability, its a mutual package. Thing is it seems a trend to sell yourself as the villian. Boxing has become very much like 'Wrastlin. People do want to see people lose. I've been there...Whitaker, Mosley, Jones jr, Mayweather but at the same time the skill cannot be denied. We have guys today that have obvious skill, but have literally done nothing...put shovel to dirt or pen to paper wise. They are pushed as product, pre packaged and embrace the Jersey Shores approach to the sport. Yes, think Broner here. Berto had skill but you could see him derailing even while he was winning. He like ALOT of guys have 'hope' and 'hype' pushed ahead of simply mastering the basics and dicipline it will take to have a long telling career. He was never required to fix his mistakes because his hype was constant! Gamboa, Rios etc. They don't fix things they just pack on weight and drop trinkets on the scale. I know..back to American. You have a guy like Andre Ward on the other side who has all the ability and frankly top notch accomplishments but to some its like sitting a glass of sour milk under the nose of a very thirsty public. He's not a character and he's bland as hell, but he's a winner.

[TitoFan]

You're right, Spicoli... personality sells as much as ability. Boxing is not wrestling, but unfortunately the same principle applies. Maybe "Money" Mayweather is not such a bad guy deep inside, and he's just using his bad boy personna to sell tickets. He's got the ability to go along with the personality, so good for him. But like IamInuit said and I agree... there's been a slow, steady shift throughout the years where now we expect our heroes to be controversial bad boys. In and out of jail.... etc, etc. To be sure, there's been tremendous fighters (i.e. - stars) that haven't needed any of this B.S. to be universally liked and successful. You mentioned Mosley. There's a good example. Save for his issues with PED use, which a lot of fans won't forgive him for...... Shane always came across as a "good guy." When did you ever see Shane embroiled in a weigh-in push and shove contest?

I keep mentioning Sugar Ray Leonard. Maybe it's because back then... you didn't NEED any of these shenanigans to be popular with the masses. You just had to be good and exciting to watch.

You mentioned Ward. He's a wonderfully gifted fighter, with some impressive wins on this record. Why isn't he a household name, like Floyd? I dunno.... maybe it's the weight division he resides in.... maybe it's the lack of big names around him.... maybe it's his bland personality. Who knows?

Unlike some people here, I don't measure boxers solely on their PPV numbers. It's a matter of personal choice. I'll respect those who choose to use that as a measuring stick.... but I'll stick to my own criteria.

[Fenster]

Come on Fenster, couldn't you be wrong just this once, please?!

Wrong about what exactly?

I said Floyd is the most popular fighter in boxing based on facts and figures. How can the most watched and followed fighter not be "fan friendly?" Fans clearly love him.

I never called him an "all American hero." But he clearly has more fans than anyone else.

Some of you seem to have lost the point when the distinction between hardcore and casual fans was made. It really isn't that complex, but I think some people struggle to differentiate between the views of the mass public and their own personal perceptions.

If guys like Floyd and Tyson were so hated (50/50), then explain why they were not booed out of the arena at every fight?

[Beanz]

Sugar Ray Leonard is not a typical character, American or not with which to compare other boxers. His clean cut image, insistence on getting a good education and virtually having to be convinced to turn pro after a glittering amateur career are anything but commonplace amongst his fighting brethren. It is also not necessary for the USA to provide a new boxing superstar for the sport to thrive internationally.

The sad fact is the shallow and dumb money mayweather caricature that Floyd employs is admired and respected by many equally blinkered wannabe flash Harry's who do pay to watch him fight, hoping that he wins and legitimises their own belief that money trumps everything.

[TitoFan]

While it's "not necessary for the USA to provide a new boxing superstar for the sport to thrive internationally".... it is necessary in order to raise the popularity of boxing in the US, which is a major player in the global boxing world. Not to mention the country with the biggest financial power in the boxing world. But you and Fenster probably need for someone other than myself to say that..... so I'll invite some of the other posters, such as Lyle, who you probably believe more than myself, to say the same thing.

I never claimed Sugar Ray Leonard was a "typical character". I said Sugar Ray Leonard was a household name back in the day when boxers didn't need to have the "bad boy" image to attract fans. But again, please don't take my word for it. Ask someone else you DO believe.

And yes.... Floyd's flashy character is a model for wannabes who want to emulate him in and out of the ring. Ergo your Broners, your Judahs, etc, etc. It's what sells nowadays.

I stick to my original point. When will the next American superstar arrive that will lift boxing in the U.S.? Americans are hungry for such a person. Floyd sells a lot of PPV.... but fans would embrace another Sugar Ray Leonard just as much, if not more.

[Beanz]

While it's "not necessary for the USA to provide a new boxing superstar for the sport to thrive internationally".... it is necessary in order to raise the popularity of boxing in the US, which is a major player in the global boxing world. Not to mention the country with the biggest financial power in the boxing world. But you and Fenster probably need for someone other than myself to say that..... so I'll invite some of the other posters, such as Lyle, who you probably believe more than myself, to say the same thing.

I never claimed Sugar Ray Leonard was a "typical character". I said Sugar Ray Leonard was a household name back in the day when boxers didn't need to have the "bad boy" image to attract fans. But again, please don't take my word for it. Ask someone else you DO believe.

And yes.... Floyd's flashy character is a model for wannabes who want to emulate him in and out of the ring. Ergo your Broners, your Judahs, etc, etc. It's what sells nowadays.

I stick to my original point. When will the next American superstar arrive that will lift boxing in the U.S.? Americans are hungry for such a person. Floyd sells a lot of PPV.... but fans would embrace another Sugar Ray Leonard just as much, if not more.

Why is every thing a confrontation with you ? I am quite aware what a household name Leonard was and don't need to take anyone's word for it? The fact is you probably will not get another SRL because those days are gone. SRL along with many boxers of his generation had far less competition for the publics attention and boxing itself will never hold that type of grip on the publics imagination again. The saviour you hope for would find a largely apathetic audience more interested in team sports, videogames and reality TV stars than following his career trajectory, coupled with opponents eager to avoid him and sanctioning bodies and Tv companies doing their darndest to prevent him from unifying and taking on all comers.

[Beanz]

I use mentions because it is courteous to make people aware when you are discussing them. I don't use them for backup. My posting style has not changed one iota, from the start. I have had arguments with Miles and Bilbo because I disagreed with them and mainly with Bilbo because he became personal, trite and offensive with his pseudo intellectual approach. You are condescending with ANYBODY who fails to agree or suck up to you. Irony and sarcasm go completely over your head and everything becomes a personal insult in your eyes. You project a blind nationalistic biased tint onto posts by British and Mexican forum members that simply isn't there and then use homoerotic imagery as though adults quite secure in their own sexuality are going to be offended and respond in kind. No one is biting mate, maybe you should get off your high horse or at least try stepping down a couple rungs before jumping to conclusions.

[TitoFan]

I use mentions because it is courteous to make people aware when you are discussing them. I don't use them for backup. My posting style has not changed one iota, from the start. I have had arguments with Miles and Bilbo because I disagreed with them and mainly with Bilbo because he became personal, trite and offensive with his pseudo intellectual approach. You are condescending with ANYBODY who fails to agree or suck up to you. Irony and sarcasm go completely over your head and everything becomes a personal insult in your eyes. You project a blind nationalistic biased tint onto posts by British and Mexican forum members that simply isn't there and then use homoerotic imagery as though adults quite secure in their own sexuality are going to be offended and respond in kind. No one is biting mate, maybe you should get off your high horse or at least try stepping down a couple rungs before jumping to conclusions.

Quit speaking for the whole forum and speak for yourself. Get some backbone and borrow a set of balls if you don't have any. You blatantly beg for support whether you realize and accept it, or not. Like I said in another thread... there are some very obvious cliques here. You've made damn sure to be inducted in one of them. You think because this is mainly a British forum, that everyone is going to come running to your aid when you cry for help. You also think it gives you a license to be abrasive and condescending, the very things you accuse me of. Then... as is your M.O., you go off and post some "Isn't life beautiful" thread somewhere else so people can develop sympathy for you. "Blind nationalistic biased tint"? Don't be so naive, kid. Many people on here suffer from the same disease, including yourself. I also asked you to produce one post which proves I'm "homophobic". You can't, because other than the sexual jokes many people throw around, there isn't anything I've ever said that proves I'm homophobic. Again... if you're gonna throw around accusations, back them up. Show me one fucking post where I've said I'm homophobic or racist. You can't, can you? Maybe your little friend can help you with that one.

[Beanz]

@TitoFan seeing as you clearly have issues maybe you would care to start a thread somewhere other than here on BOXING talk in which to vent them. I apologise for using the mention feature @TitoFan as so excellently suggested by @CutMeMick but I did so in order to make it clear it was not resevervd for posters like @Fenster with whom you seem to think I am I'm collusion along with @Violent Demise or anyone else who does not blow smoke up your...

[TitoFan]

@TitoFan seeing as you clearly have issues maybe you would care to start a thread somewhere other than here on BOXING talk in which to vent them. I apologise for using the mention feature @TitoFan as so excellently suggested by @CutMeMick but I did so in order to make it clear it was not resevervd for posters like @Fenster with whom you seem to think I am I'm collusion along with @Violent Demise or anyone else who does not blow smoke up your...

Apology accepted.
Now please refrain from any other posts on this thread that do not pertain to the subject originally intended.
Thanks.

[Kirkland Laing]

Andre Ward. If he knocked people out he might be able to sell out his home arena but if he was exactly the same fighter he is now but had a Mayweather/Broner-style mouth on him he'd be a PPV fighter now. Without the hype and the headlines boxing is just two guys beating each other up and to turn fights from two guys beating each other up into events that people will discuss around the water cooler and pay fifty plus dollars to watch you've got to have braggadocio, controversy, arrogance, bad behaviour and so on.

[TitoFan]

I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.

[Kirkland Laing]

I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.

Getting him into the Spuer Six and all his fights at home then getting him the light heavy champ on HBO isn't too shabby a job of promoting him. But you've got to have something to promote. A quietly-spoken respectful guy isn't the easiest thing to work with. If Ward had been a total cunt at the start of the Super Six, telling people the rest of the six were shit and he was going to beat the shit out of them then he would have been off to the races. He could have stood in the ring after the Kessler fight and made his mouth go. He'd just beaten the favourite and people would have started to take notice. You'd get a lot of people loving him and a lot of people hating him but they'd all tune in. Unfortunately for him he's not that kind of person, he's throwing away millions by not being a cunt.