Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....

[Beanz]

This is a bit silly. Haye, Wlad and Vitali look like bodybuilders but that is not what puts power in their punches or provides evidence of stamina and physical fitness. There are many unfit bodybuilders who have little stamina and physical fitness and many other less ripped guys who have greater cardio fitness, resistance and staying power. If you are going to include fighters from the past you then also have to afford them the same nutritional and scientific training methods used by boxers today and put more hunger into modern boxers who have way more distractions and competition when it comes to building a legacy than fighters from a bygone age had. It does not work. While it is true that many of us have a tendency to romanticise the past it is also apparent that many modern fight fans exaggerate the achievements of todays greatest.

Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in. If you do that you can then not ignore that fact when you calculate their greatness. If none of the older heavyweights would be big enough to compete today then maybe it is also true that you can not berate them for it or attribute too much to the dominance of two brothers who nearly always enter the ring with a huge size and weight advantage over their opponents.

That said 6 times out of ten Joe stops Wlad and outpoints Vitali.

[Peter Plys 44]

This is a bit silly. Haye, Wlad and Vitali look like bodybuilders but that is not what puts power in their punches or provides evidence of stamina and physical fitness. There are many unfit bodybuilders who have little stamina and physical fitness and many other less ripped guys who have greater cardio fitness, resistance and staying power. If you are going to include fighters from the past you then also have to afford them the same nutritional and scientific training methods used by boxers today and put more hunger into modern boxers who have way more distractions and competition when it comes to building a legacy than fighters from a bygone age had. It does not work. While it is true that many of us have a tendency to romanticise the past it is also apparent that many modern fight fans exaggerate the achievements of todays greatest.

Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in. If you do that you can then not ignore that fact when you calculate their greatness. If none of the older heavyweights would be big enough to compete today then maybe it is also true that you can not berate them for it or attribute too much to the dominance of two brothers who nearly always enter the ring with a huge size and weight advantage over their opponents.

That said 6 times out of ten Joe stops Wlad and outpoints Vitali.

If you want to compare two boxers than you just have to say boxer X year 2012 vs. boxer Y year 1970. All other factors are irrelevant if you want to compare two boxers across time. The only reason to mention size, nutrition and blah blah blah blah is if you want past boxers to be the best.

"Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in" - why? Last time I read the rules there was no weight limit in the HW division. What do you mean by saying "factor that in"? Should K2 start down 1 points every rd. or what?

[Beanz]

This is a bit silly. Haye, Wlad and Vitali look like bodybuilders but that is not what puts power in their punches or provides evidence of stamina and physical fitness. There are many unfit bodybuilders who have little stamina and physical fitness and many other less ripped guys who have greater cardio fitness, resistance and staying power. If you are going to include fighters from the past you then also have to afford them the same nutritional and scientific training methods used by boxers today and put more hunger into modern boxers who have way more distractions and competition when it comes to building a legacy than fighters from a bygone age had. It does not work. While it is true that many of us have a tendency to romanticise the past it is also apparent that many modern fight fans exaggerate the achievements of todays greatest.

Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in. If you do that you can then not ignore that fact when you calculate their greatness. If none of the older heavyweights would be big enough to compete today then maybe it is also true that you can not berate them for it or attribute too much to the dominance of two brothers who nearly always enter the ring with a huge size and weight advantage over their opponents.

That said 6 times out of ten Joe stops Wlad and outpoints Vitali.

If you want to compare two boxers than you just have to say boxer X year 2012 vs. boxer Y year 1970. All other factors are irrelevant if you want to compare two boxers across time. The only reason to mention size, nutrition and blah blah blah blah is if you want past boxers to be the best.

"Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in" - why? Last time I read the rules there was no weight limit in the HW division. What do you mean by saying "factor that in"? Should K2 start down 1 points every rd. or what?

Stuff and Nonsense. Whilst the ungainly Ukrainians are of course entitled to be awarded the accolades they have accrued today as rulers of a heavyweight division they are quite literally head and shoulders above, you can not ignore the fact that their size has afforded them an advantage heavyweight champions of the past did not possess. They do not fight as often and the quality of their opposition is nowhere near that of their predecessors. Posters in this thread have had the audacity to compare Mormeck and Frazier?!!! come on man in any era, heart, desire and the ability to not be intimidated before even entering the ring is massively important. Most Klitschko opponents are beaten before stepping through the ropes.

[Peter Plys 44]

This is a bit silly. Haye, Wlad and Vitali look like bodybuilders but that is not what puts power in their punches or provides evidence of stamina and physical fitness. There are many unfit bodybuilders who have little stamina and physical fitness and many other less ripped guys who have greater cardio fitness, resistance and staying power. If you are going to include fighters from the past you then also have to afford them the same nutritional and scientific training methods used by boxers today and put more hunger into modern boxers who have way more distractions and competition when it comes to building a legacy than fighters from a bygone age had. It does not work. While it is true that many of us have a tendency to romanticise the past it is also apparent that many modern fight fans exaggerate the achievements of todays greatest.

Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in. If you do that you can then not ignore that fact when you calculate their greatness. If none of the older heavyweights would be big enough to compete today then maybe it is also true that you can not berate them for it or attribute too much to the dominance of two brothers who nearly always enter the ring with a huge size and weight advantage over their opponents.

That said 6 times out of ten Joe stops Wlad and outpoints Vitali.

If you want to compare two boxers than you just have to say boxer X year 2012 vs. boxer Y year 1970. All other factors are irrelevant if you want to compare two boxers across time. The only reason to mention size, nutrition and blah blah blah blah is if you want past boxers to be the best.

"Wlad and Vitali are huge. You have to factor that in" - why? Last time I read the rules there was no weight limit in the HW division. What do you mean by saying "factor that in"? Should K2 start down 1 points every rd. or what?

Stuff and Nonsense. Whilst the ungainly Ukrainians are of course entitled to be awarded the accolades they have accrued today as rulers of a heavyweight division they are quite literally head and shoulders above, you can not ignore the fact that their size has afforded them an advantage heavyweight champions of the past did not possess. They do not fight as often and the quality of their opposition is nowhere near that of their predecessors. Posters in this thread have had the audacity to compare Mormeck and Frazier?!!! come on man in any era, heart, desire and the ability to not be intimidated before even entering the ring is massively important. Most Klitschko opponents are beaten before stepping through the ropes.

You could turn all the parameters as much as you like. You will always twist them so the B/W fighters are better than every present fighter. Your choice but very subjective. The only question is: would Wlad anno 2012 beat JF/Ali anno 1971.

Joe Frazier had less than 40 fights.....over a span of 16 years - so he had far less fights than Wlad and Vitali.......

JF met only 3 undefeated fighters with a combined record of 91-0 - Wlad has so far met (with Wach) 8 with 175-0.

Please do not mention Wlad and that smoking boxer in the same line :-D

[Peter Plys 44]

Wlad has 14 more KOs than Frazier had fights - Frazier had only 27 KOs in 37 fights over more than 15 years :-( - very sad record for a great but pure facts :-(

[imp]

Whether 100 years from now or a 1000 years. There will never be another ali..but there will be plenty of vlads. And that says it all.

[El Kabong]

Whether 100 years from now or a 1000 years. There will never be another ali..but there will be plenty of vlads. And that says it all.

ummmm yeah no, I don't think so. There's not going to be another champion this dominant for a while. There will be other champions, there will other title holders, but I think you're missing the point that Wlad could match or even break Joe Louis' 25 consecutive successful title defenses and that my friend is pretty fucking amazing....as in it's been over 60 years since it has happened

[Fenster]

Wlad has never been a true dominant champion. You can't be the no.1 without 100% establishing it.

Unfortunately Vitali's presence has prevented Wlad from ever being crowned THE true heavyweight champ.

Vitali might have slaughtered him, for all we know. And one loss completely changes everything.

[El Kabong]

Wlad has never been a true dominant champion. You can't be the no.1 without 100% establishing it.

Unfortunately Vitali's presence has prevented Wlad from ever being crowned THE true heavyweight champ.

Vitali might have slaughtered him, for all we know. And one loss completely changes everything.

Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy That's bullshit is what it is.

Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate

[ross]

Wladimir is avoiding Vitali.

Wlad will always be second best to Vitali. Although Vitali quit against Byrd, he gave Lewis one of his hardest fights and hasnt been embarrasingly dropped like a yoyo

[Fenster]

Wlad has never been a true dominant champion. You can't be the no.1 without 100% establishing it.

Unfortunately Vitali's presence has prevented Wlad from ever being crowned THE true heavyweight champ.

Vitali might have slaughtered him, for all we know. And one loss completely changes everything.

Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy That's bullshit is what it is.

Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate

It's not an argument it's a 100% truth.

Their legacies have been harmed because they couldn't meet after clearly establishing themselves as the top two heavyweights in the world. It's not just a slight passing of champions either. They have been top dogs for YEARS!!!

You can't claim to be champion without fighting your closest rival. The worst thing that ever happened to Wlad was Vitali coming back from retirement. Wlad would have been an absolute standout champion, at this current point in time, without Vitali's presence.

However, we'll never know, in the era of Wlad and Vitali, who the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world was. Fact.

[imp]

Wlad has never been a true dominant champion. You can't be the no.1 without 100% establishing it.

Unfortunately Vitali's presence has prevented Wlad from ever being crowned THE true heavyweight champ.

Vitali might have slaughtered him, for all we know. And one loss completely changes everything.

Is that your only argument? So Wlad has a brother and has refused to fight his brother and vice versa and THAT hinders his legacy That's bullshit is what it is.

Vitali will retire and Wlad will run the division by himself for as long as he likes at this rate

It's not an argument it's a 100% truth.

Their legacies have been harmed because they couldn't meet after clearly establishing themselves as the top two heavyweights in the world. It's not just a slight passing of champions either. They have been top dogs for YEARS!!!

You can't claim to be champion without fighting your closest rival. The worst thing that ever happened to Wlad was Vitali coming back from retirement. Wlad would have been an absolute standout champion, at this current point in time, without Vitali's presence.

However, we'll never know, in the era of Wlad and Vitali, who the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world was. Fact.

Very true^^.
Its a Shame there brothers.
We will never know who the top dog is of this era...until haye beats vitali..lol