Wladimirs resume is excellent...

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Are u incapable of grasping an argument? It's simple, when talking about NOTED HW punchers like WK and big george then POUNDAGE must factor in as PART of the equation, otherwise NOTED punchers like julian jackson are comparable to foreman or duran is comparable to frazier! Is it sinking in yet? It's common sense when comparing the power of 2 noted HW punchers to mention that prime george was 217 and WK 245! So sorry but 200lb shavers is not comparable to i.e Lewis IMO! Great P4P puncher, Undoubtable power but not on lewis's level! Now of course there are bigger men than foreman who don't hit as hard, and PRIME foreman in a P4P sense (Im HW terms!) is probably a slightly harder puncher than WK but when asking how does GF measure up with the NOTED big hitters of recent years like Tua, Tyson, K2, Lewis etc then i say they hit harder overall! What is so wrong with suggesting i.e WK hit's harder?? He clearly does as evidenced by the stats etc i put forth and the fact that GF struggled with Morrison, Schultz, Moorer, Briggs, Savarese etc Foremans power had no impact in the 90's...which is suprising considering he focused on it massively in training! Morrison, Schultz, Moorer, Briggs, Savarese would all have ben stopped with ease by WK. I never said it was the be all & end all as u like to imply!

U also say i de-mean GF and WK by daring to compare them and then go onto compare WK to Butterbean LOL with your 'Well Valuev/Butterbean must hit harder as they are bigger' comment! U don't even know u did it! Exposed yourself right there! LOL. All the evidence and common sense points to wlad hitting harder, Common opponents, Fight stats, How many men have survived them etc Just accept K2 are better (it's not disrespectful, boxing debate has been going on for decades) foreman himself admits it! Lets ask a fighter! Briggs fought an old foreman and an old VK and says VK is the superior fighter! Thats good enough for me too...

Stop romanticising these 70's HW's, by all means appreciate them but dont put them on a pedestal they don't deserve! Jimmy young arguably beat all of them yet casual fans don't even know who he is, and in truth when u see men like Cooper and Bugner giving ali/frazier nightmares then imaging what K2 and the elite SHW'S of the past couple of decades would do! Yeah u can cite wlad's losses but he beat far better men than the 3 he lost to..

Foreman dropped SMALL joe frazier multiple times and stopped chinny norton, so what! He still didn't KO frazier! Sanders brutalised wlad, put rahman down twice and arguably put VK down too! Do we ever hear his name mentioned in those circles? No. Why? Because everything to do with this era is overrated apparently and all that went before are demio-gods and anyone who dares to challenge that is labelled irrational!

I think the real problem here is the fact that i have destroyed u both in this thread, and u don't like it so to save face u have decided to pursue a personal vendetta in order to discredit me. LOL. This place is like some little clique with only one train of thought...

Go watch green wlad school chris byrd then go watch PRIME foreman get his as beat by 34-19 Jimmy 'A poor mans chris byrd' Young! My argument is tight. Your argument is just butthurt diatribe! Tua, Tyson, Lewis, K2 etc hit harder IMO! Holy's power is even comparable too! Hell even cooney and sanders have an argument here! If u think any of those men don't hit harder than GF then drop the attitude and say so.

U also say 'do i have any concrete evidence' well i think my argument that i put forth is better than your's! Of course it is all subjective and i could equally flip that with 'Do u have any facts to say george DEFINITELY hit harder?'... And another thing "George Foreman is an ATG puncher BUT" ..... and?? What is wrong with debating a boxer in a boxing forum? It is simply my opinion u don't have to agree, i think i have made a good enough case, but no nothing is ever definitive unless we stick em all in a lab and test em like rats! U could apply your logic to any issue in boxing and never get CONCRETE evidence, thats what we are here for to debate and put forth arguments! Sense of persepective mate, get one! And get off the fence u fookin liberal democrat ...LOL.

[ninjaspy3]

Are u incapable of grasping an argument? It's simple, when talking about NOTED HW punchers like WK and big george then POUNDAGE must factor in as PART of the equation, otherwise NOTED punchers like julian jackson are comparable to foreman or duran is comparable to frazier! Is it sinking in yet? It's common sense when comparing the power of 2 noted HW punchers to mention that prime george was 217 and WK 245! So sorry but 200lb shavers is not comparable to i.e Lewis IMO! Great P4P puncher, Undoubtable power but not on lewis's level! Now of course there are bigger men than foreman who don't hit as hard, and PRIME foreman in a P4P sense (Im HW terms!) is probably a slightly harder puncher than WK but when asking how does GF measure up with the NOTED big hitters of recent years like Tua, Tyson, K2, Lewis etc then i say they hit harder overall! What is so wrong with suggesting i.e WK hit's harder?? He clearly does as evidenced by the stats etc i put forth and the fact that GF struggled with Morrison, Schultz, Moorer, Briggs, Savarese etc Foremans power had no impact in the 90's...which is suprising considering he focused on it massively in training! Morrison, Schultz, Moorer, Briggs, Savarese would all have ben stopped with ease by WK. I never said it was the be all & end all as u like to imply!

U also say i de-mean GF and WK by daring to compare them and then go onto compare WK to Butterbean LOL with your 'Well Valuev/Butterbean must hit harder as they are bigger' comment! U don't even know u did it! Exposed yourself right there! LOL. All the evidence and common sense points to wlad hitting harder, Common opponents, Fight stats, How many men have survived them etc Just accept K2 are better (it's not disrespectful, boxing debate has been going on for decades) foreman himself admits it! Lets ask a fighter! Briggs fought an old foreman and an old VK and says VK is the superior fighter! Thats good enough for me too...

Stop romanticising these 70's HW's, by all means appreciate them but dont put them on a pedestal they don't deserve! Jimmy young arguably beat all of them yet casual fans don't even know who he is, and in truth when u see men like Cooper and Bugner giving ali/frazier nightmares then imaging what K2 and the elite SHW'S of the past couple of decades would do! Yeah u can cite wlad's losses but he beat far better men than the 3 he lost to..

Foreman dropped SMALL joe frazier multiple times and stopped chinny norton, so what! He still didn't KO frazier! Sanders brutalised wlad, put rahman down twice and arguably put VK down too! Do we ever hear his name mentioned in those circles? No. Why? Because everything to do with this era is overrated apparently and all that went before are demio-gods and anyone who dares to challenge that is labelled irrational!

I think the real problem here is the fact that i have destroyed u both in this thread, and u don't like it so to save face u have decided to pursue a personal vendetta in order to discredit me. LOL. This place is like some little clique with only one train of thought...

Go watch green wlad school chris byrd then go watch PRIME foreman get his as beat by 34-19 Jimmy 'A poor mans chris byrd' Young! My argument is tight. Your argument is just butthurt diatribe! Tua, Tyson, Lewis, K2 etc hit harder IMO! Holy's power is even comparable too! Hell even cooney and sanders have an argument here! If u think any of those men don't hit harder than GF then drop the attitude and say so.

U also say 'do i have any concrete evidence' well i think my argument that i put forth is better than your's! Of course it is all subjective and i could equally flip that with 'Do u have any facts to say george DEFINITELY hit harder?'... And another thing "George Foreman is an ATG puncher BUT" ..... and?? What is wrong with debating a boxer in a boxing forum? It is simply my opinion u don't have to agree, i think i have made a good enough case, but no nothing is ever definitive unless we stick em all in a lab and test em like rats! U could apply your logic to any issue in boxing and never get CONCRETE evidence, thats what we are here for to debate and put forth arguments! Sense of persepective mate, get one! And get off the fence u fookin liberal democrat ...LOL.

my good sir, a higher KO percentage need not mean that fighter A punched harder than fighter B. You see, timing and accuracy of the punches also factor largely in the equation.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

I'm not the one using KO%!

Nor am i the one comparing Butterbean to WK!

I'm comparing GF to WK! El kabong u r pig ignorantly stupid aren't u? LOL. I have given u a numerous counters to your argument and i keep asking u to tell me were i have stated that size is the deciding factor? I state that when 2 Noted punchers like these two have 25lbs of prime weight between them that that IMO factors into the equation! U don't have to agree, u don't have to start whining on about a baby 201lb david tua who (LOL u if u think tua at 19 had reached the peak of his powers at 201!) Even then it plays into my argument byrd stating TUA hits hard! LOL.

Here is my argument again just so u understand as u seem incapable of grasping it: WK's World title stats: Name and KO'ratio in world title fights:

·George Foreman 42.8% (3 of 7)
·Mike Tyson 62.5% (10 of 16)
·Wladimir Klitschko 77.7% (14 0f 1

Another way of comparing is common opponents: Schulz, Martin and Young:

Opponent Wladimir Klitschko's result George Foreman's result:

·Axel Schulz KO8 MD12
·Everett Martin KO8 UD10
·Mark Young KO2 (RTD2) TKO7

This again shows superiority on wlads part! More?

How about the fact that George Foreman has scored only 3 KOs in world championship fights 200×2, whereas Wladimir Klitschko has scored approximately 5 x as many!

More? So far 13 people survived fights with Foreman. But only 3 survived against Wlad! Shall we go on?

Let's also take a look at people who have sparred with them (Of course we must value the opinion of some forum trolls over someone who actually experienced them! 'But wait that guy must be lyeing.....') LOL:

I-sparred-with-Evander-Holyfield-George-Foreman-Lennox-Lewis-David-Tua-and-others-td4090601

Lets take the opinion of someone in the know:

"What makes him really special also is he has so much power in the late rounds. A lot of guys, great punchers like ·Mike Tyson, they were great in the early rounds but very seldom in the late rounds. Wladimir has knocked out guys like he did with ·Chris Byrd, and RayAustin, and ·Eliseo Castillo – he knocked those guys out early because he threw a punch early, an early power punch. And then he’s had the power to go out after being down three times with ·Samuel Peter and he had him out on his feet in the twelfth round of a very grueling fight with one single punch, a left hook. Then he knocked out Tony thompson. With Tony Thompson he ran across the ring and threw one straight right hand in the eleventh round and just walked away, and Thompson went down totally finished. Now he knocks out this guy in the 12th round with ten or twelve seconds left with one punch. To have a fighter that has that kind of devastating one punch clean knockout power is so much stress on the opponent because you’re never safe."

(Emmanuel Stewart, HOF trainer of Wladimir Klitschko) Also note Freddie roach said WK hit harder than Tyson!

More? Let's see who foreman says hit him the hardest:

Boxing - George Foreman reveals who hit him the hardest..

Oh look cooney! As i said cooney had an argument too!

Let's look at someone who fought LL and WK (Phil jackson) He says wlad hit harder:

Ex-Foe says Wladimir Klitschko Can Still Be Champ

More powerful than Lennox Lewis would you say?

Phil Jackson: "Yeah, most definitely. Yeah."

Shall we go on? U see im not basing it all on size, i said IMO being 25lbs of solid muscle larger factors in! when talking about NOTED punchers, of course foreman has incredible power and he is an ATG puncher but IMO WK hits harder! Stop crying and produce a counter to this argument! Now point me to where i said foreman doesn't hit as hard because WK is bigger? I said that when comparing those 2 then wlads size must factor in as part of the equation IMO!

[El Kabong]

Freddie Roach said Wlad's hands were faster than Tyson's, I don't recall him saying anything about punching power

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Freddie Roach said Wlad's hands were faster than Tyson's, I don't recall him saying anything about punching power

Freddie Roach: "Punch for punch actually Mike is more explosive than Wladimir Klitschko. Klitschko is so big and he doesn’t have the speed of Mike, but he’s got that dense power though so Mike’s asset is the speed that comes with the power. Klitschko doesn’t have that speed so if you see a punch coming and you can prepare for it, it won’t knock you out. Punch for punch I think Klitschko probably hits a little bit harder but Mike’s much more explosive"

Emanuel Steward: “If this man actually would just operate with close to 80%—he’s only operating with about 60%—he would be the most devastating heavyweight in the history of boxing because I’ve worked with him. Never, ever, ever have I been involved with a fighter who has so much one punch punching power. Even guys that knock somebody out—they get them hurt, they knock them down, they get them groggy—Wladimir is the only fighter I’ve ever worked with that everything can be normal like a big party—everybody is having champagne, on the floors, in the tuxedos, with the music—and the lights go off completely at one time. I mean it’s not like a gradual dimmer switch. I never saw anyone who knocked out people in a gym when they block punches and he did that about three weeks ago with a sparring partner—two weeks ago, prior to the fight. With a sparring partner he threw a left hook, the sparring partner blocked the punch and with twenty ounce gloves he was still knocked out. He has unbelievable one punch punching power and that’s why maybe he doesn’t put combinations together because he punches so effectively and with so much power with one punch, but his handicap and problem is he feints too much. He wants everything to be perfect—perfect balance, perfect this, and the last round he was a little overly aggressive, got out of position a few times, but to go three minutes with a guy with his power is like a lifetime because even if he just grazes you with a punch, you’re going to be hurt.”

[El Kabong]

.....that because he weighs more than Tyson

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

.....that because he weighs more than Tyson

Not any more he doesn't.



Mike Tyson: “I don’t buy the idea that today’s fighters are not as good as the old fighters,” stated Tyson recently to Oliver Holt of the London Mirror. “If you had asked Joe Frazier if he could beat me when I was at my best, he would have said, ‘Hell yeah.’ That’s the way boxing goes. I think I could beat the next generation of fighters but the reality of history is that the fighters get better and better, bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger.”

“I think the heavweight scene is pretty good right now,” Tyson continued. “The Klitschkos are doing great"

P.s I thought freddie said nothing about power?

[El Kabong]

I brought up Valuev & Butterbean to prove how fucking ridiculous your argument is that just because Wlad is 240+ and Foreman in his prime was about 220 it doesn't mean Wlad hits harder because if it was 100% about weight like you base your dumbass argument on then Valuev & Butterbean WOULD be the hardest punchers seeing how they outweigh everyone.....but that's not the case is it?

And you think Tua hits harder than Foreman too? And Tyson hits harder than Foreman....dude both of those guys weighed LESS than Foreman when they were knocking everyone out.